Crisis Fuels Backlash on Trade

Quote from Capablanca:

This thread rightly belongs in the Economics section. What is wrong with protectionism is that it creates market distortion and inefficiency. A buy American policy is a de facto government subsidy. Is it a good thing to bailout the U.S. car industry? Short term it looks like a good idea but if the industry isn't viable it's a band aid that will only prolong the agony. If so it would be better to use that money elsewhere. There is an opportunity cost to be paid.

It's like in trading. Do you keep a losing position hoping it will turn around or do you sell it at a loss and move the proceeds to a better looking opportunity?

Using foreign inputs where they are the most efficient option frees up more resources to be used in areas where the U.S. is more efficient.

Maybe an argument could be made for temporary support but such measures when enacted have a terrible propensity for becoming more permanent than initially envisioned and will draw retaliatory action.
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Your argument only makes sense in the frictionless world of economic theory.

What happens when you have asymetric trade? One country has open borders, the other doesn't. Where will the wealth go? It will go to the one that has closed borders.

Another problem is that labour is not as mobile as trade and technology is.
A worker can't move to China and get a job there in the bright new fields offered by globalization, he stays here to rot.

The US for decades has successfully played these trade wars very well, using agriculture as a major weapon. Well, they've met their match in China (and Japan before) who were 1) self sustaining and ONLY THEN did they 2) compete internationally. Now the US is losing the international trade wars, we need to go back to the basics and not trade with countries that's to our disadvantage.

I always say that there are 2 kinds of trade, domestic trade and international trade. Should California trade with Texas? Yes. Should the US trade with China? That's a harder one.
 
Quote from inomad:

I think that playing the protectionism game is not a smart option for US. Yes, US will recover some deficit and will gain some jobs ,but only for short term.
Because on the international market, US will have to compete with China, India, Korea,Japan, etc and other countries which offer same products but cheaper. So it's gonna be a slow economic death, imo.
So , instead of protectionism , better be for change technologies and be ahead of other countries on the global markets. Imo, US power is the ability to change rapidly and to attract new talents from whole world who can help US to lead in new technologies.
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you are stupid. and I'll leave my analysis of your post at that.

The US imports 70% of all consumed goods. therefore shutting off all these imports means domestic manufacturers would have to supply these goods.

protectionism is what is needed. Not more divide and conquer zionist bull shit. How do you know your congressman is a zionist? go have a chat with him on trade. If he is for free trade, kick the shit out of the scum.
 
Quote from 4444CJones4444:

If the Chinese, one of the most “leave us the fuck alone and stay out of our country” societies on the planet, figured out it’s in their best interest to open up to the world, maybe some of you should reconsider the idea of closing OUR economy to the world. Not that it would ever happen or get anywhere close. It sounds ridiculous just typing it.
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You mean, the currency-manipulating Chinese, who se single purpose is to become exporter to the world? Their only interest, is growing their exports to keep ahead of the western citizens coming out of the farms and villages looking for work.

China gets into an industry, pumps a lot of govt muscle in, establishes a complete supply chain, until they leave other countries as shells of their former selves. This has happened in Latin America, Aftica, Europe, North America, and many other regions.

They are now planning on doing this to aircraft, and cars. When they are done, Boeing/Airbus and western car makers will lose huge market share. They did this in steel.

What does China buy from the west? Ag products, raw materials, factory building equipment, etc.

I have ZERO interest in what they plan. I want to tarriff and gut the Chinese plan,nad rebuild American manufacturing, and other industries. I don't WANT Chinese imports.
 
Quote from Renegen:

This backlash is just the US waking up after taking it from exporting countries for 20 years. It's about time. The asian countries fully well know their development was due from the american economy overspending, if they have the least bit of decency they will accommodate a bit and won't start politics wars.
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EXACTLY. We went from a service and manufacturing powerhouse, to an outsourcing center, giving away expertise, jobs, and many things to the lowest available wages. Our trade deficit is terrifying, and aside from this economic crisis, expanding rapidly every year.

In the US, labor and environmental controls are strong. Therefore, things like fish farming products are exported here from other countries, who don't worry so much about polluting their waterways or things like safety or retirement benefits for workers.
 
None of you have made a well thought out pro-argument. Protectionism is terrible for Americans. Let me explain:

1) Lifestyle change: that computer you are using right now will cost at least double (however currency "manipulation" would likely take place simultaneously to thwart the effects. LOL) And that pair of Nikes, and that automatic coffee maker too.

2) Government initiates TARP-III (100% on the backs of taxpayers, 100% created out of thin-air) for US corporations to re-tool to provide US consumers with the goods they are missing. It's just like real war, except it's trade war. Good thing!

3) Oops. Workers aren't clamoring for the mindless factory-like work. $12 hourly wage isn't cutting it either. Maybe drilling a hole into sheet metal really is worth $71 an hour. Bring on the Employee Free Choice Act! Oops

4) Foreign nations, who are unequivocally in depression (since America cut them off) have no choice. No money for you. In fact, you know that 300B lent to you a last year, it's our money and we NEED it now! BYO soup bowls and utensils. Do not expect soup with rice.

Oil is $400 a barrel, Molsen is $40 a six-pack. Late model US-made SUVs are the new FEMA trailers. But hey, the DTV converter box is subsidized.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!

Once unthinkable, now unstoppable
obama-lama
 
You anti-trade guys think small. Look to smoot-hawley if you wonder what happens when trade shuts down. Aggregate demand falls, supply falls, economies shrink.

If you want smaller economies, shut down trade.
 
Oil is $400 a barrel, Molsen is $40 a six-pack. Late model US-made SUVs are the new FEMA trailers. But hey, the DTV converter box is subsidized.
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This rings a bell. You are probably right. I read a theory a while ago, now forgotten, any more thoughts on this?
 
Amen Tradezones. It is the CEO class that supports this "free trade - open borders" stuff and they also caused the economic meltdown Unfortunately, the payoff congress so the status quo will never change. Hey can we argue about abortion, gay marriage, and guns while they clean out the store? I mean aren't those the issues that will matter the most when the soup lines of the 20's are brought back. Sorry I just played the class warfare card didn't I.
 
Quote from scriabinop23:

You anti-trade guys think small. Look to smoot-hawley if you wonder what happens when trade shuts down. Aggregate demand falls, supply falls, economies shrink.

If you want smaller economies, shut down trade.
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I agree. I'm not sure which is bigger - the stupidity or the arrogance on display by some of these people.

Listen guys, if you can't even be arsed to read basic literature on a subject, just do the world a favour and keep your mouth shut about it. You wouldn't debate brain surgery procedures if you'd never gone to med school or at least read a few textbooks - why is trade policy any different? You need to learn first, only then do you have the right to form an opinion and have it respected. Until then you are just arrogant ignorant blowhards advocating depression, repression and poverty for the entire world.
 
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