Credit spread - deep otm - false sense of security?

[quatron]

Quote from hedgeman:


Don't forget, these back ratios will have the same risk as standard credit spreads over time and thats why it is not wise to be sitting in these trades or any as expiration nears. This is how you can lose big and why a lot of traders get lit up.

On the other side you won't see much profit (if any) if you close those spreads early. The alternative strategy would be to roll spreads a bit further from ATM, buy back some shorts and buy more longs as expiration approaches. Maintain the ratio as if the backspread was ATM. i.e. take gamma ratio of ATM and near ATM with the same strike gap. This will limit your losses if the underlying gaps to your short strike.
I would still close out all shorts a day before expiration just for peace of mind. But let longs run, they all would cost you a penny.

 

[hedgeman]

Quote from quatron:

On the other side you won't see much profit (if any) if you close those spreads early. The alternative strategy would be to roll spreads a bit further from ATM, buy back some shorts and buy more longs as expiration approaches. Maintain the ratio as if the backspread was ATM. i.e. take gamma ratio of ATM and near ATM with the same strike gap. This will limit your losses if the underlying gaps to your short strike.
I would still close out all shorts a day before expiration just for peace of mind. But let longs run, they all would cost you a penny.

Yes, there's more than one way to reduce risk.

I have already closed out most of my puts, SEPT RUT 680/660 back ratios and we are 29 days 'til expiry.

 

[cdcaveman]

Quote from hedgeman:

Yes, there's more than one way to reduce risk.

I have already closed out most of my puts, SEPT RUT 680/660 back ratios and we are 29 days 'til expiry.

You guys are putting trades on three or four opex's out and closing them at the one moth mark?

 

[optionstrading]

On another topic, can I get some feedback on this trade idea please?

 

[hedgeman]

Quote from cdcaveman:

You guys are putting trades on three or four opex's out and closing them at the one moth mark?

I opened that trade on 08/01 but look at the market since. I still have call back ratios at 860/880 and looking to start chopping that side down when the time is right.

Its a lot safer to open trades like this several weeks prior to expiration. When you have the market move one direction, in this case much higher, makes sense to take the risk off. I added a much smaller ratio at 710/690 for additional credit because I was planning to make an adjustment on the call side but so far market is starting to cooperate.

 

[cdcaveman]

Quote from hedgeman:

I opened that trade on 08/01 but look at the market since. I still have call back ratios at 860/880 and looking to start chopping that side down when the time is right.

Its a lot safer to open trades like this several weeks prior to expiration. When you have the market move one direction, in this case much higher, makes sense to take the risk off. I added a much smaller ratio at 710/690 for additional credit because I was planning to make an adjustment on the call side but so far market is starting to cooperate.

oh i was confused .. as i thought i was..... i figured you were putting these trades on two months out and closing them as they got into the last month.. your exposing yourself to more gamma risk doing it in the front month. .but hedging it by using ratios instead of straight condors.. i get ya.. what are you using to model the what ratio to use, change vol assumptions, days to expire, etc etc.. i'm with IB and TOS and i have hoadley option add in for excel...

 

[cdcaveman]

Quote from optionstrading:

On another topic, can I get some feedback on this trade idea please?

umm... yeah.. are you expecting like a big move up or down or something? my guess is withing days we are going to be back below 140 and that spread would be in trouble... tell me the ideology you have behind the strikes you picked.. have you messed around with your volatility assumption to see what the trade looks like when vol changes? thats not really a trade idea unless you further explain yourself.. Do you have an exit strategy? Do you have a Management strategy for different cases?

 

[hedgeman]

Quote from optionstrading:

On another topic, can I get some feedback on this trade idea please?

I would not make a trade like this, very close to expiration and at/in the money, the spread is too wide. You could be assigned and you would then be long 600 shares of SPY. Thats just my opinion.

 

[hedgeman]

Quote from cdcaveman:

oh i was confused .. as i thought i was..... i figured you were putting these trades on two months out and closing them as they got into the last month.. your exposing yourself to more gamma risk doing it in the front month. .but hedging it by using ratios instead of straight condors.. i get ya.. what are you using to model the what ratio to use, change vol assumptions, days to expire, etc etc.. i'm with IB and TOS and i have hoadley option add in for excel...

You got it! Way toooo dangerous to trade within a month, for me anyways but some traders like that kind of excitement and thats why trading is different for everybody. I'm using TOS only. I start about a couple months out, open trades 1/2 or 1/3 at a time, then add to the trade and keep the risk profile upsloping. The ratios are always the same for the easy fill, then i add additional longs, its really not complicated.

 

[cdcaveman]

Quote from hedgeman:

You got it! Way toooo dangerous to trade within a month, for me anyways but some traders like that kind of excitement and thats why trading is different for everybody. I'm using TOS only. I start about a couple months out, open trades 1/2 or 1/3 at a time, then add to the trade and keep the risk profile upsloping. The ratios are always the same for the easy fill, then i add additional longs, its really not complicated.

yeah... its cheap to add longs when when some thetas have burned some premium off them.. Are you keeping the strike width as small as possible.. or do you spread them wider?