Creating a group of REAL professional traders?

[mercurial]

Wow.. those are some crazy numbers. Even 5% of account per trade is fairly risky, but of course this depends on your stats. With something like a 50% win rate on a 1:2 risk to reward, this wouldn't be so bad, but certainly moving up to 30% risk to only gain 10% is crazy indeed.

Yes. It was crazy but consciously so. The win rates on a few of the methods I used were higher and the aggregate of all approaches was what you see in the stats. Even so it's streaky so most of the time I bet at 1/4 Kelly unless I was carried away or had reason to believe I had dependency. My plan was to ramp as fast as possible while the going was good and then quit. I have tried this approach a few times over the last 20 years. Sometimes I blow up other times it works. I'm chasing the Larry Williams fantasy and suits my temperament. I'll probably do it again...

I'd like to be respectful of the OP and his plan to form a group and would like to get back on track so I'll stop discussing my reckless trading,
sorry for the hijack.

Octo, what do you see as the objectives, intentions and ground rules/structure for your group?

If you are interested in sharing, I'd like to hear about what you feel would be important to include/exclude in a group and what you would like to get out of it/contribute to it too.

- Alex

 

[direct]

Offer on the table mate... anyone else too. Feel free to contact me.

I would love to get a window into the world of what other people are doing if there are indeed some legit traders still around who do converse.

Its all about spending my time conversing with legit guys, be they profitable or not, but still honest, transparent, and with no hidden agenda.

 

[jk90029]

What do you think of creating an organization of ACTUAL professional retail traders? A group which is not subscription based, but rather verifies already successful traders to be part of the group? Why doesn't this exist...

If any new kind of room (exclusive only to who open his record) is introduced, I am interested in joining.

Any member should open his account (verifing success), like in every month or every year or last 20 years like Buffet.
Also should post at least one study every month.

Furthermore, one should open his brokerage and tax amount every year, as well as lifetime amount.

The new (more strong) room might be in this place of ET, in case moderator allows.

 

[birzos]

This seems to be the main problem. To get around this the group could be open to anybody who is a full time trader (or claims to be), and then the group could decide to keep them or not after some period of time. Honestly, I can tell when someone isn't a real (full time) trader because;

1. They don't understand anything your talking about
2. They don't show up in room until 2pm EST (or don't show up at all, day in and day out)
3. Or they talk crap about someone else's style

I've been asked this a lot, "what would the purpose of the room be?". Let me ask you Birzos, what was the purpose that you were looking for out of your room a year ago?

That's all assuming you're the best, if you're not.

1. They don't care
2. They may be more efficient than you
3. If it's not profitable it is crap

So under your rules I fall in that category, yet the fund we recently launched turned +23% Mar2017 because I adjusted the methodology to 1second timeframes. Which is why you need like for like not just at startup but ongoing, otherwise it doesn't work as everyone progresses/regresses at different speeds so you would have to kick them out if they underperform, it's psychology.

The purpose, it was more an academy for a group to find potential grads to run micro funds, and if not the rookies would learn some things and go on their merry way, there was no purpose to generate income from it directly nor chit chat, it was pure business. But it was too 'in the middle' and the input was more than the output, you either go full institutional style by pulling people up to make money telling them what to do, or you create an income generating forum, there's very little in the middle.

Actually not entirely sure what the point of public forums are, there's so much noise and clickbait posts in them you only find a nugget once in a blue moon. I just needed to understand the psychology and structure of retail, took longer than expected but doesn't it always and now I'm going back to institutional, because, well it sucks!

 

[newwurldmn]

The inherent problem, even with extreme accurate vetting, is that good fortune and luck is impossible to distinguish from skill and talent in this game.

It's actually really easy to know who is worth talking markets about and who isn't.
Looking at PNL track records is not the way to figure it out.

 

[Pekelo]

It's actually really easy to know who is worth talking markets about and who isn't.
Looking at PNL track records is not the way to figure it out.

Yeap. Also, consistency is the key, a consistent loser is worth his weight in gold.

I think one aspect of a room is camaraderie, aka entertainment if you wish to call it like that. After all you are bored out of your mind and that is why you are looking for people to share your TIME with. So do you want a hugely profitable guy who talks little and shares nothing or a not so profitable guy who is a good bro and gives you feedback and such?

One good rule is though: no politics or religion....

Reminds me, another aspect of being in a room is to not making crappy trades. When you know someone is watching you might more likely stick to your rules.

 

[mercurial]

Yeap. Also, consistency is the key, a consistent loser is worth his weight in gold.

^ This!

In a recent podcast interview on Chat With Traders, the guest implied that Tudor Jones had a group of traders that worked for him trading their own methods. It is told that he had real time or near real time awareness of their positions, their recent trade history and an awareness of their methods. Allegedly he used them in aggregate as an indicator for his own trading. It seems plausible.

I have a friend that falls in love with indicators that he finds or invents. Like clockwork, when he starts to "sell" the idea to friends "You really need to try XYZ ... technique" and shows high conviction I have always been tempted to fade his calls because they are so consistently poor. He is a great researcher, huge contributor to group efforts to identify, define and test ideas and fantastic, considerate and a really entertaining friend with a terrible trading instinct despite his experience, knowledge and technical skills. He overrides his profitable systems and always manages to top-tick on discretionary trades... I think his (self proclaimed) need to self sabotage has really excellent timing, it wins a lot. I've told him how I feel about it and he still only sees it in retrospect.

I don't think his scenario is unusual either. I'm sure I have friends that piggyback and also fade me at certain times too. Even very skilled traders have issues. I think that the best are able to consistently manage their issues and the very best turn their own issues into assets. To me that is what it means to "trade your personality" or "find a system that suits you"...

- Alex

 

[Overnight]

...To me that is what it means to "trade your personality" or "find a system that suits you"...

- Alex

^ That!

 

[humbletrader2016]

It would be nice to get knowing some pros who do day or swing trade SPY calls/puts option and ES. My requirements are that a)knowing how to identify the different between a small setup (i.e. scalping for few ticks) or big setup (i.e. holding for >10 ticks before taking profits), and b) your winning trade % is greater than 75% for everyday or else, I don't want to waste your time and mine.

About me, I've been trading full time for about a decade where the only source of income is from trading. I already sacrificed many things in my life in order to trade successfully and therefore, I'm not interested in talking to any newbie who wants to learn a thing or two from me. That said, I already mentored a couple of them for free before, who wasted a lot of my time. So, don't bother to pm me if you are looking for freebies.

 

[algofy]

It would be nice to get knowing some pros who do day or swing trade SPY calls/puts option and ES. My requirements are that a)knowing how to identify the different between a small setup (i.e. scalping for few ticks) or big setup (i.e. holding for >10 ticks before taking profits), and b) your winning trade % is greater than 75% for everyday or else, I don't want to waste your time and mine.

About me, I've been trading full time for about a decade where the only source of income is from trading. I already sacrificed many things in my life in order to trade successfully and therefore, I'm not interested in talking to any newbie who wants to learn a thing or two from me. That said, I already mentored a couple of them for free before, who wasted a lot of my time. So, don't bother to pm me if you are looking for freebies.

Ironic "humbletrader" is kind of a dick.