Covid-19: So now what?

[virtusa]

But the threat of "a tsunami of cancer deaths" in Scotland , Spain and probably many more places, nor double heart stroke deaths during Spain lockdown are onviously not 1 guy here and there, extra deaths were around 70% more than covid deaths during the quarantine in Spain - while deaths were very liberally attributed to covid .

Without real numbers and some analysis this discussion is just thin air. I looked up some data and made some calculations. If your statement is correct it means that about 63% of the Covid deaths are in reality not Covid deaths. So cheating by all hospitals is over 1 on 2. I cannot believe that. That number is far too high. I worked for 14 years in hospitals, you cannot just write down COVID or not, there are procedures to follow. Only in a banana republic, Russia, China or North Korea this size of manipulation is possible.
Here is the calculation:

I assume that my numbers give an indication. I understand that they will not be 100% correct. There are no recent numbers available.
In several European countries, patients are already transported to other hospitals, even in other countries (from Netherlands and Belgium to Germany). This proofs that a lack of capacity is also cause for a number of deaths. Without lockdown these numbers would increase fast and lead to much more deaths. Numbers of patients to be treated should stay below the maximum capacity of the healthcare system. To keep it there lockdowns are necessary. If people would not be idiots lockdowns would not be needed till the actual extend. But if even Presidents start to say not to take any precautions, lockdowns will be unevitable, bigger in size and more frequent.

I learned that:Gentle healers make smelly wounds. (translation)
Remove a cancerous growth for 70% and in no time the cancer is back.

 

[cesfx]

Lockdowns in Europe are funny...

The UK has a fake lockdown, although businesses are going to hell because forced shuts, people are free to wonder around. There are rules, but zero enforcement. Masks are compulsory in public transport but only 70% wears them. There are very little penalties and some business operate illegaly. Illegal raves, illegal house parties and so on, again with minimal intervention, if it's an illegal wedding or a full restaurant/nightclub the police might show up.

Italy had a military lockdown. The police and its alternative forces have been handing 400€ fine even to homeless for being outside! Thounsands of tickets. Chased people running on the beach with helicopters, arrested mothers for not wearing masks in the street and fined joggers in the middle of deep mountains where they can't even find fugitives when they have to.
But once the lockdown gets lifted, like last summer, most of them party like there is no tomorrow, ignoring all rules unless it gets them a fine.

Same goes for Spain. Except the military enforced lockdown of last spring, similar to Italy, they also partied like there is no tomorrow, before and in between breaks.

France looked like an army of non bielever at the beginning and ignored most rules until recently.

We live a brainwashed life ruled by ai algorithms and we scream violation of human rights when we are told to stay put because of a rare occurring pandemic. It's pathetic.

I have a business losing money and my damned upstairs neighbors must have setup a gym in their flat. I really want this lockdowns to stop and "other" people to go back to do things.... But I prefer to save my elder and fragile family and friends first.

If I was ready and willing to trade and compromise life for money, I'd probably be in war business or human trafficking.

 

[virtusa]

In Europe a poll under 830 general practitioners gave following results:

• 307 doctors don't want to be vaccinated themselves
• 132 doctors would advise their clients NOT to take a vaccination

They still have a lot of questions:

• They know that the vaccine takes a long time to develop.
• They want to know how the vaccine works effectively now.
• What components it consists of.
• Should they be aware of any side effects that we don't see with classic vaccines?

They poll was organized before the good results of the vaccines were known.

 

[Pekelo]

They poll was organized before the good results of the vaccines were known.

So worthless?

In mid-December, in the US they start to roll out at least 1 vaccine. By end of January 20-30 million people will be vaccinated. Probably the second vaccine also gets approved. I am guessing I can get a shot around April. By that time there will be at least 30 million people with 3+ months of experience and effectsw, so any kind of short term problem should come out.

Personally I would like to get the Oxford vaccine, because that has been in development for the longest time (years) and I trust the Brits more than the Americans. But I am not picky, I will evaluate the situation in March-April.

Until then, about 25 bucks worth of supplements per month keep the virus at bay. Less than a dollar a day could save most people, pretty sad...

 

[DiceAreCast]

Are you aware how long many medical studies run before even getting the slightest chance of approval? We should not resort the vaccine to be harmful but I think we should rightly ask tons of questions. I trust many mathematical equations, but they have been around for several hundred years. Should we equally trust pharmaceuticals to get it right? Are their motivations aligned with ours? I think we should all be highly suspicious and demand answers. Politicians and pharmaceuticals are completely untrustworthy at this point. They never figured out how to cure hiv or cancer in 3 decades but can develop a worldwide epidemic in around 8 months? Plenty of space for suspicion of you ask me.

So worthless?

In mid-December, in the US they start to roll out at least 1 vaccine. By end of January 20-30 million people will be vaccinated. Probably the second vaccine also gets approved. I am guessing I can get a shot around April. By that time there will be at least 30 million people with 3+ months of experience and effectsw, so any kind of short term problem should come out.

Personally I would like to get the Oxford vaccine, because that has been in development for the longest time (years) and I trust the Brits more than the Americans. But I am not picky, I will evaluate the situation in March-April.

Until then, about 25 bucks worth of supplements per month keep the virus at bay. Less than a dollar a day could save most people, pretty sad...

 

[virtusa]

So worthless?

In mid-December, in the US they start to roll out at least 1 vaccine. By end of January 20-30 million people will be vaccinated. Probably the second vaccine also gets approved. I am guessing I can get a shot around April. By that time there will be at least 30 million people with 3+ months of experience and effectsw, so any kind of short term problem should come out.

Personally I would like to get the Oxford vaccine, because that has been in development for the longest time (years) and I trust the Brits more than the Americans. But I am not picky, I will evaluate the situation in March-April.

Until then, about 25 bucks worth of supplements per month keep the virus at bay. Less than a dollar a day could save most people, pretty sad...

Not worthless, but we don't know the long term effect on humans.
In Europe we had a huge scandal in the 1950's:softenon scandal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

Over 10,000 children were born and missed arms, legs , or other parts. 40 % of these children died in the first days already. All because of a medecin that was not safe.

I am sure that there are many effects that have been studied, but there is 1 big problem: some bad effects are only clear after a few years, or even decades.
That's why many doctors are a bit reluctant.

 

[DiceAreCast]

Not just isolated events, there are tons of examples. Contagan ring any bells? Ups just realize we talk of the same thing.

Asbestos another example, certain foods that were deemed safe turned out to be very harmful. Oxycontin,.... Tons of medication we were told where beneficial were either wrongly prescribed, or contained outright harmful substances...there is a reason why it takes usually years to test and evaluate. I appreciate we don't have this amount of time but it does not mean we should be any less suspicious and overly careful.

Not worthless, but we don't know the long term effect on humans.
In Europe we had a huge scandal in the 1950's:softenon scandal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

Over 10,000 children were born and missed arms, legs , or other parts. 40 % of these children died in the first days already. All because of a medecin that was not safe.

I am sure that there are many effects that have been studied, but there is 1 big problem: some bad effects are only clear after a few years, or even decades.
That's why many doctors are a bit reluctant.

 

[Pekelo]

Not worthless, but we don't know the long term effect on humans.
In Europe we had a huge scandal in the 1950's:softenon scandal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

Which Thalomid, this one?:

"It was approved for medical use in the United States in 1998. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the safest and most effective medicines needed in a health system. It is available as a generic medication."

It was dangerous to pregnant women only. So let's not inoculate pregnant women. Do you know what else is dangerous to pregnant women? Alcohol and tobacco. And Covid.

But sure, we don't know the long term effects. Do you know who doesn't care about it? Old people! Those who mostly die from the virus.

 

[DiceAreCast]

So, let's not let old sick people with preconditions dictate what we put into our bodies just because the media and politicians tell us that everything will get back to normal if we swallow the pill.

Which Thalomid, this one?:

"It was approved for medical use in the United States in 1998. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the safest and most effective medicines needed in a health system. It is available as a generic medication."

It was dangerous to pregnant women only. So let's not inoculate pregnant women. Do you know what else is dangerous to pregnant women? Alcohol and tobacco. And Covid.

But sure, we don't know the long term effects. Do you know who doesn't care about it? Old people! Those who mostly die from the virus.

 

[Pekelo]

So, let's not let old sick people with preconditions dictate

They don't. And pregnant women make a very small percentage of the population, the rest can be just fine.

But if you don't want to get vaccinated, fine by me, faster I get mine. And later on you might suffer because of your unscientific approach. Still fine by me. Social Darwinism at its finest.