Actually down where I live the majority of the people upset by NFL players not standing for the national anthem are military veterans.
Could Someone Tell me What these guys are protesting... specifically
- Thread starter jem
- Start date
Actually down where I live the majority of the people upset by NFL players not standing for the national anthem are military veterans.
That makes sense in light of military training.
The jack asses who locked arms are just as bad as the jerks who knelt.
How big was Kaepernick's paycheck this week?
I haven't read all posts here, but reading the first page, it is clear nearly everyone has forgotten why Kapernick started this in the first place...last season. The specific issue, as is pointed out by Bob Costas in the linked YouTube, was the issue of police brutality, which at the time, was measured out to blacks disproportionately to the population, if you go by the YouTube videos that were coming out regularly at that time. Kapernick may even have sat down (he sat down the first time, then kneeled the remainder) before BLM as an organization even existed. It was , if memory serves, shortly after a black man selling cigarrettes on the street in NY was chocked to death, brutally. Or, shortly after it became clear nothing was going to be done about it. Even i was getting sick of the brutality and was wondering how the issue could be addressed and solved, long term.
I recommend everyone listen to what Bob Costas has to say here, as he sifts through the nuance that has since evolved. People are conflating issues here. Perhaps Kapernick conflated issues, choosing the wrong symbolism to express righteous indignation with the specific issue of police brutality. The flag does not necessarily represent the police state, all police officers, or even any police officers, good or bad. It could mean, however, that he was upset with government at the federal level, at the DOJ level, for not doing anything, or not doing enough about the persistent problem of police brutality, which does include brutality against whites.
I doubt Kapernick meant to disrespect American troops. Just as the flag does not represent all police officers, or necessarily any police officers (good or bad), the flag does not represent all American troops, or necessarily any American troops.
Now, if people want to insist that the flag represents American troops, all troops dead and alive, and only American troops, then they are going to have to make a better argument than the popular argument now being circulated among the un-nuanced.
Who here can tell me, what, exactly, unambiguously, what the American flag stands for?
What we know for sure is the military pays the NFL to advertise.
It's quite possible the flag is purely a MILITARY symbol, that flies during an offensive attack, or a defense.
What else we can know is football, more than any other sport, symbolizes martial arts...the military arts of offense and defense.
To many, the flag stands for belligerent offensive military attack, rather than national defense against belligerent offensive military attack. No one is doing anything about belligerent offensive military attack, the brutal policing of the world, and no one is doing anything about police brutality on a local level.
So some players, putting two plus two together may be tempted to symbolize objection to that aspect of flag symbolism. I doubt, very much, any of them are objecting to any troops who risked their lives after being drafted for an offensive war, or volunteering for a defensive war.
I think it is dishonest to ignore the nuance, conflate issues, and tell me, to my face, that these players are protesting the honest contributions of good soldiers, ignoring that a lot of soldiers just want to get out of mom and dads house, stop playing World Of Warcraft, start playing war games for real, and start taking orders to destroy lives, no matter the logic behind the orders.
(A lot of soldiers have died fighting for a pipeline through Syria, for example, having volunteered knowing full well what kinds of pawns they can become for Presidents and generals, with hidden agendas and ulterior motives.)
So, there is a symbolic similarity between the brutality that SOME police are dishing out to the American people, and the brutality SOME American troops are dishing out to other countries, upon the orders of Presidents and generals.
Because of the similarities, the issue is bleeding over to represent a protest against the very president of the United States. The president's response actually exacerbates the situation, giving the impression that he is currently embroiled in bad international policing, and brutality toward any citizen who would voice an objection.
I feel we are being beaten over the head with this flag until we suffer concussion, brow beaten so softly, yet persistently, we don't even realize we've been knocked out and injured.
I recommend everyone listen to what Bob Costas has to say here, as he sifts through the nuance that has since evolved. People are conflating issues here. Perhaps Kapernick conflated issues, choosing the wrong symbolism to express righteous indignation with the specific issue of police brutality. The flag does not necessarily represent the police state, all police officers, or even any police officers, good or bad. It could mean, however, that he was upset with government at the federal level, at the DOJ level, for not doing anything, or not doing enough about the persistent problem of police brutality, which does include brutality against whites.
I doubt Kapernick meant to disrespect American troops. Just as the flag does not represent all police officers, or necessarily any police officers (good or bad), the flag does not represent all American troops, or necessarily any American troops.
Now, if people want to insist that the flag represents American troops, all troops dead and alive, and only American troops, then they are going to have to make a better argument than the popular argument now being circulated among the un-nuanced.
Who here can tell me, what, exactly, unambiguously, what the American flag stands for?
What we know for sure is the military pays the NFL to advertise.
It's quite possible the flag is purely a MILITARY symbol, that flies during an offensive attack, or a defense.
What else we can know is football, more than any other sport, symbolizes martial arts...the military arts of offense and defense.
To many, the flag stands for belligerent offensive military attack, rather than national defense against belligerent offensive military attack. No one is doing anything about belligerent offensive military attack, the brutal policing of the world, and no one is doing anything about police brutality on a local level.
So some players, putting two plus two together may be tempted to symbolize objection to that aspect of flag symbolism. I doubt, very much, any of them are objecting to any troops who risked their lives after being drafted for an offensive war, or volunteering for a defensive war.
I think it is dishonest to ignore the nuance, conflate issues, and tell me, to my face, that these players are protesting the honest contributions of good soldiers, ignoring that a lot of soldiers just want to get out of mom and dads house, stop playing World Of Warcraft, start playing war games for real, and start taking orders to destroy lives, no matter the logic behind the orders.
(A lot of soldiers have died fighting for a pipeline through Syria, for example, having volunteered knowing full well what kinds of pawns they can become for Presidents and generals, with hidden agendas and ulterior motives.)
So, there is a symbolic similarity between the brutality that SOME police are dishing out to the American people, and the brutality SOME American troops are dishing out to other countries, upon the orders of Presidents and generals.
Because of the similarities, the issue is bleeding over to represent a protest against the very president of the United States. The president's response actually exacerbates the situation, giving the impression that he is currently embroiled in bad international policing, and brutality toward any citizen who would voice an objection.
I feel we are being beaten over the head with this flag until we suffer concussion, brow beaten so softly, yet persistently, we don't even realize we've been knocked out and injured.
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