Could Metatrader steal data?

quantcode · Oct 29, 2016

Hello dear traders,

I have a technical question about the possibilities of the trading software Metatrader4/5.
It is known that metaquotes provide the brokers the "virtual dealer plugin" to manipulate the trading.

Some automated Traders are afraid that the broker could steals the trading system and create a dll in which the trade logic is. Now my question:

Do you think a dll is save or it is possible that metatrader can access the hard drive and could steal a dll? With the file, reverse enginiering would be possible.

regards qc

Negative Theta · Oct 30, 2016

Technically speaking, they could. Given that Metatrader knows exactly where your expert advisor script or the DLL file is on the disk, then the software could very easily open it, maybe serialize it and then send to one of their servers. Actually MT for sure loads the EA scripts in the app memory, while for DLL I think that it communicates via OS mechanisms(I'm not very sure about this). Eitherway, the idea is that yes, it is possible.
I don't think that they would do that though.

But, if you really want to be on the safe side, then create your entire algorithm logic in a standalone application and then create a DLL which acts as an interface/bridge between Metatrader and your Java(for example) application.
So basically: your Java algorithm communicate with the DLL(sockets, files, etc) and the DLL transmits the information further to Metatrader application. And the opposite direction also: Metatrader > DLL > Java algo.

Later edit: I double checked and for instance in C++, the function LoadLibrary("C:\\Documents ...") actually does load the DLL object in the current process(Metatrader in our case).

Telepuzik · Oct 30, 2016

Every noob trader is afraid someone will steal their trading system. That is nonsense. Because nobody wants to lose money. Groundhound day. Rinse and repeat. "Hey, guys, looks like I have found the Holy Grail papertrading ES futures. Now my only problem is that I'm afraid somebody will steal my strategy. I've spent 5 whole days developing it on my netbook and guess what - it works! Could you please recommend me 3-5 quants with exceptional CVs and experience in top HFT Cos in NYC strict? I can't pay them yet as I still live with my parents and work part time at the local burger joint but I will gladly consider a profit trading scheme if they work hard enough to automate my strategy and increase it's already 105 percent profitability. And temporarily pay gas for my scooter. And have any of you by any chance heard something about binary options"?

quantcode · Oct 30, 2016

Excuse my english I still practice...

@Negative Theta
Thank you very much for the assessment. For a long time I like c++ better than mql. A standalone application (and process) is really nice. The communication would be a bit difficult and the strategie-tester will not run well, but then you are a free man

It would be equally safe to trade with api but i like the great selection of brokers with Metatrader.

@Telepuzik

Telepuzik said:
Every noob trader is afraid someone will steal their trading system

No, most noobs are not interested in this topic because they are bombarded with nonsense by the retail industry.

doggyfx · Oct 30, 2016

I think MT won't bother with that, they have stable money inflow from selling licenses to bucketshops if the fact surfaces that bucketshop data can be compromised they will lose all clients and it doesn't make a sense.

d08 · Oct 31, 2016

Telepuzik said:
Every noob trader is afraid someone will steal their trading system. That is nonsense. Because nobody wants to lose money. Groundhound day. Rinse and repeat. "Hey, guys, looks like I have found the Holy Grail papertrading ES futures. Now my only problem is that I'm afraid somebody will steal my strategy. I've spent 5 whole days developing it on my netbook and guess what - it works! Could you please recommend me 3-5 quants with exceptional CVs and experience in top HFT Cos in NYC strict? I can't pay them yet as I still live with my parents and work part time at the local burger joint but I will gladly consider a profit trading scheme if they work hard enough to automate my strategy and increase it's already 105 percent profitability. And temporarily pay gas for my scooter. And have any of you by any chance heard something about binary options"?

And what about the non-noob traders?
Business secrets are stolen all the time and people like you think everyone's just paranoid.
I'd never use something like Metatrader, software that connects to their servers regularly.

doggyfx said:
I think MT won't bother with that, they have stable money inflow from selling licenses to bucketshops if the fact surfaces that bucketshop data can be compromised they will lose all clients and it doesn't make a sense.

If it's done covertly then no-one will find out...

Telepuzik · Oct 31, 2016

d08 said:
And what about the non-noob traders?
Business secrets are stolen all the time and people like you think everyone's just paranoid.

That is exactly my view. True.I also think that profitable traders should be aware that not only their strategy can easily be stolen but themselves too! What for you may ask? To work for some ruthless prop trader Russian mafia boss somewhere in the middle of Siberia. So a profitable trader has to invest at the very least 10K USD a month on various internet anonimisers alone. I wouldn't trust Baron from elitetrader.com... Plus I heard he is fluent in Russian... wonder why. not being paranoid, not being paranoid at all. Товарищ "Барон" смотрит на тебя.

Mtrader · Oct 31, 2016

Telepuzik said:
Every noob trader is afraid someone will steal their trading system. That is nonsense. Because nobody wants to lose money. Groundhound day. Rinse and repeat. "Hey, guys, looks like I have found the Holy Grail papertrading ES futures. Now my only problem is that I'm afraid somebody will steal my strategy. I've spent 5 whole days developing it on my netbook and guess what - it works! Could you please recommend me 3-5 quants with exceptional CVs and experience in top HFT Cos in NYC strict? I can't pay them yet as I still live with my parents and work part time at the local burger joint but I will gladly consider a profit trading scheme if they work hard enough to automate my strategy and increase it's already 105 percent profitability. And temporarily pay gas for my scooter. And have any of you by any chance heard something about binary options"?

It is not because you are telling your life story that everybody else is in the same desperate situation. I understand that you cannot understand that some people might be smarter than you (or less stupid), and can creat valuable things. But reality is that some are.
As a Russian you should know how much and how easy computers are hacked. In Russia it is the most favorite national sport.

Telepuzik · Oct 31, 2016

Mtrader said:
It is not because you are telling your life story that everybody else is in the same desperate situation. I understand that you cannot understand that some people might be smarter than you (or less stupid), and can creat valuable things. But reality is that some are.
As a Russian you should know how much and how easy computers are hacked. In Russia it is the most favorite national sport.

You sure understand ALOT, my discerning friend.

quantcode · Oct 31, 2016

When you install MT5: End-User License Agreement for Trading Terminal

2.18. Utilization of Your Computer: MetaQuotes' Software (including the Product) may utilize resources of Your computer (or other applicable device). You are utilizing, including, but not limited to, CPU, memory and network connectivity for the limited purpose of providing the functionality of the Product and establishing connection with MetaQuotes' Software. MetaQuotes will use its commercially reasonable efforts to protect the privacy and integrity of Your computer resources and Your communications. However, You acknowledge and agree that MetaQuotes does not give any warranties in this respect.

How to interpret this...