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Could an atheist ever be elected President of the US in our lifetime?
- Thread starter Thunderdog
- Start date
We have more than sufficient hard and soft factual evidence of the speghetti monster. No need to rely on blind faith when it comes to Him and His noodleness.Quote from version77:
I have a belief there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Is that a philosophy? Is that Faith? Is that Doctrine?
problem with that is everyone messes with stuff so...Quote from jem:
no - I think we have sufficient evidence of the creation of the Santa story by norwegians (or some countries) and the Coca Cola company. There may have been a gift giver but we know the story is embellished.
no - I think we have sufficient evidence for the creation of the christian religion being based upon much earlier Babylonian myths and a whole lot of brand imaging done by the Copts, which was then vigorously embellished (especially by the catholics)
in that case religions should perhaps stop telling / pretending / lying to people that they know it was.Quote from jem:
we have no ability to state whether the universe was created or not. It could very well have been created by a superior being.
....but which means anyway a superior being could very well have been created by another superior being. Not very elegant... turtles all the way down
Quote from jem:
( As and aside you know I have cited top physicists who say the universe appears designed.
They would not make that argument if we knew there was no creator of the universe.)
designed?? ...(self) organized so as to give configuration...
or Goddidit? Which did they say, or were they actually in reality saying something else.
Quote from jem:
Based on our current scientific understanding - it is an article of faith to say the universe was created by a superior being or God.
the very same would be said at the time of Odin. He was a superior being whose Son came to Earth and caused lightening and thunder. Odin was a God of the gaps based on your form of "current scientific understanding"
Odin got squeezed out by better science understandings...
Quote from jem:
It is also a faith based statement to say you know the universe was not created by a superior being or God.
No, that would be arrogance not faith. To say you know a magical invisible concept which has no more reality than a Giant Goblin existing in the dreams of a fair maidens' fairy tale didn't create the Universe, would be sheer arrogance. No faith required.
So you concede it is possible to not believe something without it being faith.Quote from jem:
no - I think we have sufficient evidence of the creation of the Santa story by norwegians (or some countries) and the Coca Cola company. There may have been a gift giver but we know the story is embellished.
we have no ability to state whether the universe was created or not. It could very well have been created by a superior being.
( As and aside you know I have cited top physicists who say the universe appears designed.
They would not make that argument if we knew there was no creator of the universe.)
Based on our current scientific understanding - it is an article of faith to say the universe was created by a superior being or God.
It is also a faith based statement to say you know the universe was not created by a superior being or God.
Quote from vhehn:
So you concede it is possible to not believe something without it being faith.
concession why even bring that up? The atheists are the ones playing games I am dealing in logic and science.
.
Deal with it Stu - and you other irrationals (I am not talking about you vhehn) -
It is not rational for an atheist to say they know a superior being did not create the universe. an atheist might hope, think, feel or have faith a superior being did not create the universe - but they have no scientific basis to say the universe was not created.
And if you wish to know what hoyle, davies, greenstreet and other physicists have said do a search.
Quote from jem:
It is not rational for an atheist to say they know a superior being did not create the universe. an atheist might hope, think, feel or have faith a superior being did not create the universe - but they have no scientific basis to say the universe was not created.
There is also no scientific basis for Theist's to say the Universe
was created by a God. So what else is new...
BTW... How can something (the Universe) be created out of nothing
by a Supernatural being that would of had to be created by
something else.
Now that doesn't make any sense at all.
Oh, I know the answer. This SuperNatural Being created itself.
And then created the Universe. Powerfull dude there in the sky.
Less complicated to believe the Universe became of it's own accord.
Unless you want to believe in a Designer that designed a flawed Universe.
Quote from version77:
There is also no scientific basis for Theist's to say the Universe
was created by a God. So what else is new...
BTW... How can something (the Universe) be created out of nothing
by a Supernatural being that would of had to be created by
something else.
Now that doesn't make any sense at all.
Oh, I know the answer. This SuperNatural Being created itself.
And then created the Universe. Powerfull dude there in the sky.
Less complicated to believe the Universe became of it's own accord.
Unless you want to believe in a Designer that designed a flawed Universe.
Actually if you follow some of the science going on right now - you would see that there are some top scientists stating that based on the evidence we have right now there is an argument that the universe appears designed.
I am not saying it is the definitive argument - but I am saying it is a credible scientific argument and is currently debated by real scientists.
------
And to address your other point. Once something exists outside of our time - it might not need a creator.
Something outside our universe might not need a creator...The superior being might simply be. It is our very fallible concepts of time that screw things up.
It is why temporal mechanics problems on Star Trek can have effects observed before cause.