Corporate America seeks legal protection for when coronavirus lockdowns lift

[Cuddles]

No one can open unless the government says it is ok so if the Governor says it is ok and you go to work and get COVID...

therein lies the problem, how many of the states opening are following federal guidelines? Should states take on that liability?

 

[jem]

because everything you said does not apply to this situation.

The employee is given the option to work.
The social policies supporting OSHA regulations are worlds different...

Employers can be held responsible for failing to exercise reasonable care... or the proper due diligence. Controlling Covid at the moment is not something we can expect a company to do at the moment.

there are myraid common sense reasons.

why? if companies are pushing for quarantine to be over before the guidelines CDC has established, or take shortcuts in keeping a sterile work environment, how is it any different than pushing employees to do work in violation of OSHA?

At some point, it's just like any other virus out there, and companies shouldn't be held to account. But you don't get to lobby against the science to reopen quickly, and then lobby to skirt responsibility for endangering your work force.

 

[Cuddles]

because everything you said does not apply to this situation.

The employee is given the option to work.
The social policies supporting OSHA regulations are worlds different...

Employers can be held responsible for failing to exercise reasonable care... or the proper due diligence. Controlling Covid at the moment is not something we can expect a company to do at the moment.

there are myraid common sense reasons.

yes, and common sense tells us we can't reasonably say it's safe to go back to work until we have broad testing.

 

[CaptainObvious]

yes, and common sense tells us we can't reasonably say it's safe to go back to work until we have broad testing.

Please define safe. I'm honestly curious as to what people think that means these days. Is it all risk must be eliminated? If not, what is the standard? If it does in fact mean risk free exactly how will that be achieved? There is no testing process which will be without flaws and who gets to decide just what is an acceptable margin of error? The Feds? Governor or Mayor? Individual companies themselves?

 

[Cuddles]

Please define safe. I'm honestly curious as to what people think that means these days. Is it all risk must be eliminated? If not, what is the standard? If it does in fact mean risk free exactly how will that be achieved? There is no testing process which will be without flaws and who gets to decide just what is an acceptable margin of error? The Feds? Governor or Mayor? Individual companies themselves?

Putting numbers on this plan would be a start...you know, metrics? Why are we stuck w/same test capacity for over a month?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/#phase-one
https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily

 

[CaptainObvious]

Putting numbers on this plan would be a start...you know, metrics? Why are we stuck w/same test capacity for over a month?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/#phase-one
https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily


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That all sounds nice but how long can we wait on these metrics to be met before we suffer such devastating damage to our economy and society at large from which there is no recovery? Nobody really knows that for sure, but I think we can all agree it's weeks, not months. And just what does this testing look like? Say I own a restaurant. I must test every employee every single day. How long does that take? Then I must test every single customer that arrives. Again, how long before the results give me the all clear? Whatever this test will be must be safe, reliable, easy to administer and deliver results in say 3 to 5 minutes max. Is that reasonable and how far are we away from achieving that?

 

[Cuddles]

That all sounds nice but how long can we wait on these metrics to be met before we suffer such devastating damage to our economy and society at large from which there is no recovery? Nobody really knows that for sure, but I think we can all agree it's weeks, not months. And just what does this testing look like? Say I own a restaurant. I must test every employee every single day. How long does that take? Then I must test every single customer that arrives. Again, how long before the results give me the all clear? Whatever this test will be must be safe and easy to administer and deliver results in say 3 to 5 minutes max. Is that reasonable and how far are we away from achieving that?

Not my problem that Trump wasted 3 months. He's better advised as to what these metrics should be(how many tests per day per region) so it's wrong to say "nobody really knows for sure". It's a given restaurants remain shutdown and only take out is allowed. China managed to reopen, and we pride ourselves on American exceptionalism, why can't we at least match their efforts?

I'm not running the show, but we got plenty of countries reopening. We dropped the ball on containment and from where I'm sitting mass testing is just Trump being stubborn to keep his numbers low.

 

[UsualName]

That all sounds nice but how long can we wait on these metrics to be met before we suffer such devastating damage to our economy and society at large from which there is no recovery? Nobody really knows that for sure, but I think we can all agree it's weeks, not months. And just what does this testing look like? Say I own a restaurant. I must test every employee every single day. How long does that take? Then I must test every single customer that arrives. Again, how long before the results give me the all clear? Whatever this test will be must be safe, reliable, easy to administer and deliver results in say 3 to 5 minutes max. Is that reasonable and how far are we away from achieving that?

So we say testing a lot but fail to mention the contact tracing aspect. It really is something Americans need education on because I totally get that people hear testing and think it means test everyone, it doesn’t.

This is not to say tracking Covid down through tracing is not a massive effort, it is, and it will still remove tens of thousands of people from the workforce a week. It’s juat that it is the only way to manage a transmission rate less than 1.

If we get out of this by June, say, without testing and tracing then we will be right back here come September.

 

[jem]

No one is saying we are going to eradicate Covid with testing and tracing.
We need to know stats and make decisions based on science... I agree.

We need to know what is happening with low risk groups.
What is the effective R0 with low risk people
There is no science based reason that been shown us... indicating low risk people should stay in lockdown right now.

I refer you to the Prado paper.
its all models... but no one has a model saying lockdown creates better results among low risk groups.

not when you factor suicide, drug abuse, domestic violence... not to mention the economic consequences.

So we say testing a lot but fail to mention the contact tracing aspect. It really is something Americans need education on because I totally get that people hear testing and think it means test everyone, it doesn’t.

This is not to say tracking Covid down through tracing is not a massive effort, it is, and it will still remove tens of thousands of people from the workforce a week. It’s juat that it is the only way to manage a transmission rate less than 1.

If we get out of this by June, say, without testing and tracing then we will be right back here come September.

 

[vanzandt]

OSHA?

.

OSHA...
Good point. I forgot about them.
They have a whole new boogey-man now to occupy their time.
Hmph.
That's good.