Cooltraderdude's TopstepTrader Combine (daily trade report and journal)
- Thread starter TST_Hoag
- Start date
I doubt that more than 1% are extracting their lifestyle needs from trading, and it is probably less than 1%, maybe 0.5% or less. The 5% figure is bandied about but I'm fairly certain that is way too high. True, for any given day/week/month/etc. 5% or more may end up profitable, but it is hit or miss for most of these people for whom trading is an expensive hobby. My viewpoint is based partly on my unscientific observation when I was in an office with others and mostly extrapolating from another nonphysical, skills-based activity whose population a lot is known about: chess.
Under the USCF rating system, the top 5% of members would include a 1900+ Class A player in addition to 2400+ Senior Masters. My opinion may be harsh, but 1900 players and even light Experts (2000-2099) are simply not that skilled. Strong experts (2100-2199) and light Masters (2200-2299) I would consider just okay even though such a person would be in the top 2% and 1% respectively. Above 2300 (top 0.5%) requires real expertise.
I'm not saying chess and trading have overlapping skills. I offer the analogy to highlight the fact that the top 5% in a skills-based game includes a lot of fish who aren't that good. I include the link to the ratings distribution table from USCF.
http://archive.uschess.org/ratings/ratedist.php
Under the USCF rating system, the top 5% of members would include a 1900+ Class A player in addition to 2400+ Senior Masters. My opinion may be harsh, but 1900 players and even light Experts (2000-2099) are simply not that skilled. Strong experts (2100-2199) and light Masters (2200-2299) I would consider just okay even though such a person would be in the top 2% and 1% respectively. Above 2300 (top 0.5%) requires real expertise.
I'm not saying chess and trading have overlapping skills. I offer the analogy to highlight the fact that the top 5% in a skills-based game includes a lot of fish who aren't that good. I include the link to the ratings distribution table from USCF.
http://archive.uschess.org/ratings/ratedist.php
Brett Steenbarger had some good articles about this some time back when he kept a daily blog. I believe he broke traders down into 3 categories. I'm going by memory here so maybe a little off. These are the so called successful categories obviously. First group is the scratch trader. Obviously this is the largest group. Guys who play a tight game and don't take much risk and don't make much either. But after commish they usually tread water and go sideways.
The second category are the guys that can make enough money to pay their monthly bills. He said ultimately this is the category where one can call themselves a professional trader as they can actually "live" off their trading.
The third category are the super stars and there are very very few of them. These are the people who can earn well and beyond what they need to live on and can actually accumulate and grow their equity.
I think the 5% number probably encompasses all three of those categories. So 1% would be the super star group. The other two groups have to be very very careful as they are one bad trade away from falling off the list fast and losing their stake.
Kudos to you for being honest with yourself and taking a conservative approach.
Actually, most educators don't trade at all. The unscientific survey I have done from talking with these people and having drinks with them is they don't trade. Now to be fair, most of them did trade at one time or another. For example, in the NFL, the head coach doesn't actually play nor could he at his current age. But many of them at one time played in the NFL or at least played college ball. They have "knowledge" and "experience".
Brad Gilbert for example was a horrible, horrible tennis player. Use to watch him all through the 90's. But he knew the game of tennis, just didn't have the physical skills. When he took over coaching for Andre Agassi he completely turned his game around. He went from being ranked 150th in the world to winning the US Open and being number one. Even though Brad could never actually do the things Andre could do, he still had the ability to get Andre's game to a whole new level.
But back to educators. I have found that most of them don't even have the desire to trade. They are much more of a social animal and crave interaction. Trading is kind the opposite. I don't think most educators make that much money anyway, so after cost of living expenses, I really don't see how it would be practical for most of them to trade.
I like to group trading with other nonphysical, skills-based activities. With sports, a person can have an elite insider's understanding of how to play the game but be unable to play it physically. Success in sports is ultimately about physical performance.
With trading, the game is entirely in the mind and the expert has built his mind to that of an expert through gaining knowledge, skills, and experience. There are no expert traders around who are unable to play the game unless his mind has deteriorated in which case being unable to trade is the least of his problems.
Well , well
A wild guess here
I think tst is just running and trying to profit of a bell curve
Where they do use a winning streak of a trader to cash in on
And as soon as the curve or streak is in a decline the send him
Back to the combine , riding waves ait !?!
I mean a serious trader who can make it in this biz wont
Use such a platform , they start from scratch with threr own
Plan...
Anyone who really wants to be a pro doesent lOok for shortcuts
And tst is a shortcut... For newbs
Maybe tst found a top trader.(random distrib.) But i bet he doesnt stayed there forever
If u wanna make it in this game u set up a plan how u gonna do it
And a prop shop wouldnt be in this plan for sure
U either make it on your own , else your just playing arround
A wild guess here
I think tst is just running and trying to profit of a bell curve
Where they do use a winning streak of a trader to cash in on
And as soon as the curve or streak is in a decline the send him
Back to the combine , riding waves ait !?!
I mean a serious trader who can make it in this biz wont
Use such a platform , they start from scratch with threr own
Plan...
Anyone who really wants to be a pro doesent lOok for shortcuts
And tst is a shortcut... For newbs
Maybe tst found a top trader.(random distrib.) But i bet he doesnt stayed there forever
If u wanna make it in this game u set up a plan how u gonna do it
And a prop shop wouldnt be in this plan for sure
U either make it on your own , else your just playing arround
I think that is fair to a point. Physical sports are unique in that respect. But as I did point out, almost all coaches DID have the physical aspect at an earlier time. They may not have been an all star, but let's be honest, even playing collegiate sports is one hell of a fucking accomplishment. Those coaches that might look fat and dumpy now were studs 25 years ago. What they are offering a young athlete is perspective.
Trading is different in my mind that I believe trading to be very anti-social. Meaning I think most of us that are good at it are generally speaking more the loner types or certainly not social butterflys. Unfortunately, we make bad teachers because of this. Most guys no matter how good they are simply don't have the communication skills to help others.
Whereas there are many guys in this space who are knowledgeable about trading and maybe halfway decent enough, but who ARE social creatures. For the record, I don't know any really outgoing guys who excel at trading. I just think it's a different skills set. However, those outgoing guys can make good teachers. They just have no desire to spend the 10,000 hours behind a screen to master this. They rather be out and about.
So I'm not sure it's so black and white to say someone needs to be a master to teach. I think most newbie traders just need some early guidance. They need someone to point them in the right direction and really give them self confidence. Nobody on this earth can transfer their talent and knowledge to another person at will. Trading simply doesn't work that way. At best, one can silently observe someone who is master trader and make note of his behavior and habits and try to emulate them. Even that will only get you so far, but it's a start.
i have admitted nothing,putting words in my mouth, more lies and insults from a fool,if you want to read the market ,learn market profile , start with a notebook and hand chart it from open to close ,normal business hours, hand charting will force you to take note of the markets back and forth movements, after a few months you will be bored and your hand will know where the market is going , while it waits for it to get to the square so you can fill it in, apply that same short term knowledge to a longer term chart and combine it with the daily , once you can spot these fill in areas you wait for it to move in a direction and go with it, knowing the target /destination in advance..trading couldn't be made any simpler... spx should visit 1421 and possibly 1406 this week,if we break 1428 area.. i don't know much ,but i try to share it..mav you are becoming quite the troll with the insultsQuote from Maverick74:
That's what I thought. You have no tangible advice for those who want to do this for a "living". Thank you for finally admitting it. I give you credit. Maybe you should start your own thread espousing advice for those want to want to work in IT support and trade on the side as a hobby. It sounds like you have some solid ideas for those folks. Good luck with that. And I sincerely mean that.