It's above retail C4 platform can be had for under $4.35 rt even if you trade no volume.
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Cooltraderdude's TopstepTrader Combine (daily trade report and journal)
- Thread starter TST_Hoag
- Start date
It's above retail C4 platform can be had for under $4.35 rt even if you trade no volume.
Quote from icarus618:
A person without money and without access to money to fund an account is in no position to dictate terms. So long as the terms are clearly spelled out, even a remote opportunity to make a few bucks upon demonstrating the requisite trading performance seems pretty good. Were I back in college, I would have jumped at something like this. Why not? I had little money as a college student and with part-time jobs it took me awhile to save $2500 to open my first account at a discount broker to play the stock market using the Investor's Daily delivered to me in the morning. That was back in the 1980's.
That being said, I do not understand the enticement for someone who can trade to do a combine for nothing. What is the reward? Just to take the time to learn a new trading platform, there would have to be a big incentive for me. We're heading into the election and the end of the year and the markets are picking up. Who would fiddle around with a simulated account when the market is in the most tradeable phase for the year, except perhaps some broke kid who can't trade anyway?
If this TST firm wants participation by people on this board who can actually trade, offer some incentive. Put up some cash to anyone from this board who passes the combine under your terms.
Perhaps hap Patak can put this together. If I recall in the past you used to could sign up for challenges among traders with the top player winning something
Quote from icarus618:
A person without money and without access to money to fund an account is in no position to dictate terms. So long as the terms are clearly spelled out, even a remote opportunity to make a few bucks upon demonstrating the requisite trading performance seems pretty good. Were I back in college, I would have jumped at something like this. Why not? I had little money as a college student and with part-time jobs it took me awhile to save $2500 to open my first account at a discount broker to play the stock market using the Investor's Daily delivered to me in the morning. That was back in the 1980's.
That being said, I do not understand the enticement for someone who can trade to do a combine for nothing. What is the reward? Just to take the time to learn a new trading platform, there would have to be a big incentive for me. We're heading into the election and the end of the year and the markets are picki. Who would fiddle around with a simulated account when the market is in the most tradeable phase for the year, except perhaps some broke kid who can't tra
If this TST firm wants participation by people on this board who can actually trade, offer some incentive. Put up some cash to anyone from this board who passes the combine under your terms.
Icarus,
Ask yourself, what is the reward for posting on elite? Therein lays your answer. Why do these self professed super traders post in elite, particularly during the trading day, yet refuse to price their mettle on the Combine. There is no downside unless the obvious is true that it's all BS.
Quote from icarus618:
A person without money and without access to money to fund an account is in no position to dictate terms. So long as the terms are clearly spelled out, even a remote opportunity to make a few bucks upon demonstrating the requisite trading performance seems pretty good. Were I back in college, I would have jumped at something like this. Why not? I had little money as a college student and with part-time jobs it took me awhile to save $2500 to open my first account at a discount broker to play the stock market using the Investor's Daily delivered to me in the morning. That was back in the 1980's.
That being said, I do not understand the enticement for someone who can trade to do a combine for nothing. What is the reward? Just to take the time to learn a new trading platform, there would have to be a big incentive for me. We're heading into the election and the end of the year and the markets are picking up. Who would fiddle around with a simulated account when the market is in the most tradeable phase for the year, except perhaps some broke kid who can't trade anyway?
If this TST firm wants participation by people on this board who can actually trade, offer some incentive. Put up some cash to anyone from this board who passes the combine under your terms.
Perhaps you have not read over the various threads but where did TST say they were looking for experienced traders? Maybe I missed that part. If you go to their website it's clear they are trying to create a "minor league" environment with guys who want to "learn" to trade. In fact it was asked of them many times if an experienced guy showed them their sheets, would they back them. They said no, they were not interested. The first guy that that did the combine on here who this thread is named after did not even know how to select the active contract month. The whole point of this is showing others what the process looks like.
Quote from ScalperJoe:
I think what Peternam was asking about is whether or not the commission schedule itself was marked up, not whether it was TST or PTP that did the markup.
It is self evident that TST is the recruiting firm that collects the combine fee and implements the combine, and PTP does the financial backing for the live traders.
The $2.50 per side is the rate per contract per lot including exchange fees, so $5 r/t per trade on 1 lot, $25 r/t if one does the 5 lot max per trade.
To hitandrun's point, this commission is retail and there is tremendous churn if you play for ticks, especially when you factor in a 40% giveback.
For example, if a live trader wants to make around $100 bucks NET on 2 lots of Aussie, it would require NINE ticks.
9 ticks x $10/tick x 2 lots = $180
Minus $5/lot x 2 lots = ($10)
Minus 40% giveback = ($68)
Equals $102 net paid to trader
Obviously, a retail trader in his own account gets to keep the $180 less their commissions. It's already been discussed that a trader has three choices: get hired by one of the "true prop firms", fund their own account, or try the combine.
Perhaps Mr. Patak can clarify and put the issue to rest regarding the commission schedule:
Is there a markup to the trader on what the backer pays in commissions on the live account, similar to equity prop firms?
Joe, you do realize that a majority of ET'ers trading futures are paying nosebleed rates with TOS and IB right? Very few guys on here actually have accounts with Velocity or Advantage. BTW, I don't think TST is looking for scalpers. I honestly don't even know how a scalper would pass the combine based on the metrics. Furthermore, I think the way to beat the combine is to make as few trades as possible holding for bigger winners. I think cool trader was onto that before he blew out. Why would you want to try scalping against the HFT firms anyway? I can't think of a single discretionary futures trader who is a profitable scalper. I really think commissions is a moot point. You need to trade for the bigger moves. I mean that's just my opinion, but I'm pretty sure I'm right on this.
Quote from marketsurfer:
Icarus,
Ask yourself, what is the reward for posting on elite? Therein lays your answer. Why do these self professed super traders post in elite, particularly during the trading day, yet refuse to price their mettle on the Combine. There is no downside unless the obvious is true that it's all BS.
My "reward" for reading/posting on ET is to interact with wonderful people like you for fun. It doesn't interfere with my trading at all, and in fact it helps with the break time. You may be surprised to know that, being in front of the screens most of the day, I do a few things to distract myself while I'm waiting. This is especially true after RTH when the market is at a pivotal point and I want to be there when Asia and Europe open.
Regarding the combine, you are free to do as you wish. We all know trading virtual money is an occupation for you so there is no downside for you to sign up. All I did was make a simple suggestion. You can read into that whatever you want.
P.S. When are you going to host a gathering at the Vegas Expo? If you ever do, I will give you an opportunity to call BS to my face. No worries, I'm a real sweetheart in person, as quite a few people on this board already know.
Quote from Maverick74:
Joe, you do realize that a majority of ET'ers trading futures are paying nosebleed rates with TOS and IB right? Very few guys on here actually have accounts with Velocity or Advantage. BTW, I don't think TST is looking for scalpers. I honestly don't even know how a scalper would pass the combine based on the metrics. Furthermore, I think the way to beat the combine is to make as few trades as possible holding for bigger winners. I think cool trader was onto that before he blew out. Why would you want to try scalping against the HFT firms anyway? I can't think of a single discretionary futures trader who is a profitable scalper. I really think commissions is a moot point. You need to trade for the bigger moves. I mean that's just my opinion, but I'm pretty sure I'm right on this.
Perhaps PTP rates are higher or lower vs. TOS and IB, not sure.
From the reports presented thus far, I'd have to agree that the probability in passing the combine decreases with a scalping approach. In one of the reports where the trader passed, most days he only traded 1 or max 2 lots of crude and the average hold time was around an hour.
However, commissions are not a "moot point", since you have to factor those in whether you are trading in the combine or the live account, since the profit objective in the combine is the NET profit, so if you're churning then the odds are lower.
For the live account, the trader has to look at the cost/benefit of perhaps paying higher commissions and profit split vs. opening their own account and running the risk of "blowing up" 5k or 10k.
That's why for a person who has not traded a live futures account, this is a low-cost solution to gaining the experience and discipline. I personally know traders who used to trade stocks and migrated to futures with ZERO experience, and either blew up quickly or took severe drawdowns and eventually closed their accounts.
Someone posted that futures are a different animal and that's an understatement. Trading one lot of Aussie seems like nothing but it's the same as trading 1,000 shares of stock and making $10 bucks a penny.
Quote from icarus618:
My "reward" for reading/posting on ET is to interact with wonderful people like you for fun. It doesn't interfere with my trading at all, and in fact it helps with the break time. You may be surprised to know that, being in front of the screens most of the day, I do a few things to distract myself while I'm waiting. This is especially true after RTH when the market is at a pivotal point and I want to be there when Asia and Europe open.
Regarding the combine, you are free to do as you wish. We all know trading virtual money is an occupation for you so there is no downside for you to sign up. All I did was make a simple suggestion. You can read into that whatever you want.
P.S. When are you going to host a gathering at the Vegas Expo? If you ever do, I will give you an opportunity to call BS to my face. No worries, I'm a real sweetheart in person, as quite a few people on this board already know.
Please! I have never heard you make any claims, obviously that BS statement was not directed at you. No need to be defensive, surf
Quote from ScalperJoe:
Perhaps PTP rates are higher or lower vs. TOS and IB, not sure.
From the reports presented thus far, I'd have to agree that the probability in passing the combine decreases with a scalping approach. In one of the reports where the trader passed, most days he only traded 1 or max 2 lots of crude and the average hold time was around an hour.
However, commissions are not a "moot point", since you have to factor those in whether you are trading in the combine or the live account, since the profit objective in the combine is the NET profit, so if you're churning then the odds are lower.
For the live account, the trader has to look at the cost/benefit of perhaps paying higher commissions and profit split vs. opening their own account and running the risk of "blowing up" 5k or 10k.
That's why for a person who has not traded a live futures account, this is a low-cost solution to gaining the experience and discipline. I personally know traders who used to trade stocks and migrated to futures with ZERO experience, and either blew up quickly or took severe drawdowns and eventually closed their accounts.
Someone posted that futures are a different animal and that's an understatement. Trading one lot of Aussie seems like nothing but it's the same as trading 1,000 shares of stock and making $10 bucks a penny.
Sorry, let me clarify. If one is making one or two trades a day and holding positions, then commissions are a moot point. I cannot stress this enough that I highly doubt any scalper will not only not pass this combine, but even in their own retail account, it is a useless endeavor.
I can go into detail if you want, but trust me, if the high rates here discourage people from scalping, they should consider that a good thing. And yes, futures are entirely different beast.
Quote from Maverick74:
Perhaps you have not read over the various threads but where did TST say they were looking for experienced traders? Maybe I missed that part. If you go to their website it's clear they are trying to create a "minor league" environment with guys who want to "learn" to trade. In fact it was asked of them many times if an experienced guy showed them their sheets, would they back them. They said no, they were not interested. The first guy that that did the combine on here who this thread is named after did not even know how to select the active contract month. The whole point of this is showing others what the process looks like.
Perhaps I misunderstood what's going on here. I admit I skipped a chunk of posts in this thread. I saw that the combine was being offered to ET at large and wasn't aware that the offer was directed at a particular segment of ET.