Consistently Profitable Traders - Going Red to Black

Quote from dave4532:

Mike, I sense you are a bit hostile towards me. I asked you an honest question and you are replying with words such as "bother", "your belief system", etc. That does not sound good to me. It may be an indication of hidden high level frustration levels but I may be wrong it may be just regular pressure from the markets. I did not know you are managing a fund. I asked you the question because I have two very close friends who studied EE and they are both making around 120K+ Good engineers are in high demand even in this slow economy. AFAIK, it is hard to make that kind of money trading although it is not possible but I have not met anyone doing it and believe me, I know many people who trade.

Having said that, given the fact that I am new here compared to you and others, I have done some limited research but I have not been able to identify any edge "that will work in perpetutity [it is spelled perpetuity] given that the market structure remains somewhat constant.". Maybe you will be kind enough to point me to older posts of members that were generous enough to share such an edge. Maybe I have a different - possibly wrong - idea about what constitutes an edge. As I said, I am new here.
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If it comes across as hostility, then be it. That's your read however my goal is to be direct and not mix words.

Your attitude speaks volumes, and your attitude is clear given the questions you are asking.

What I'm reading from your questions is the following:

(1) You do not believe significant money can be made from trading. This belief is held as a result of "knowing many people who trade".

(2) Your *very* limited research produced a paper from 1993 that re-enforced your conclusion in point (1).

(3) While your question to me was honest, it was phrased with a hint of passive aggressive. Income comparison from two distinct professions, the way you referred to it in your question, was derogatory to the trading profession.

(4) Your reply to talon was rude. That was an incorrect conclusion in response to someone (i.e. Talon) whom I have respect for on this site. In fact, he's one of the posters on this site who has revealed several solid methods on this site.

(5) Yes, I understand you are new. Fine. Still, your attitude sucks and your belief systems with respect to the above points also suck.

Again, I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm getting to the point quickly. Your conclusions are wrong and the way you presented them were rude.

We can start over, I certainly don't hold a grudge. Why don't you read every single one of talon post's over the next week and then get back to this thread.
 
Well he can probably ignore the 150 or so where i just bashed that BoWo kid repeatedly lol. :)

Thanks for the kind words Mike.

Quote from Mike805:

Why don't you read every single one of talon post's over the next week and then get back to this thread.
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Mike, I am sorry pal, I did not know you have serious problems. This is what your post demonstrates. No serious fund manager has the time to write all that crap you did. You now attacked me based

- on referencing a 1993 paper (like truth has expiration)
- on a conversation with someone else (I am talking to you)
- on my beliefs (very democratic of you Mike)

Yet, you have not answered the key question of mine. Where is the edge, where is the beef Mike? Give me the edge that is publicly available here on ET Mike, I will backtest it and report to you the results since it was announced.

I get the feeling you are not a fund manager and that you have a serious communication and attitude problems Mike. That is too bad. I feel sorry about you Mike. I was not expecting that from you. You failed me Mike. If you believe I am wrong, you must prove it Mike. Prove it. There are ways of doing that. As long as you do not provide proof but instead attacking me, you are making a fool of yourself Mike. You ought to read this Mike

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

Very interesting read


Quote from Mike805:

If it comes across as hostility, then be it. That's your read however my goal is to be direct and not mix words.

Your attitude speaks volumes, and your attitude is clear given the questions you are asking.

What I'm reading from your questions is the following:

(1) You do not believe significant money can be made from trading. This belief is held as a result of "knowing many people who trade".

(2) Your *very* limited research produced a paper from 1993 that re-enforced your conclusion in point (1).

(3) While your question to me was honest, it was phrased with a hint of passive aggressive. Income comparison from two distinct professions, the way you referred to it in your question, was derogatory to the trading profession.

(4) Your reply to talon was rude. That was an incorrect conclusion in response to someone (i.e. Talon) whom I have respect for on this site. In fact, he's one of the posters on this site who has revealed several solid methods on this site.

(5) Yes, I understand you are new. Fine. Still, your attitude sucks and your belief systems with respect to the above points also suck.

Again, I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm getting to the point quickly. Your conclusions are wrong and the way you presented them were rude.

We can start over, I certainly don't hold a grudge. Why don't you read every single one of talon post's over the next week and then get back to this thread.
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Quote from dave4532:

Mike, I am sorry pal, I did not know you have serious problems. This is what your post demonstrates. No serious fund manager has the time to write all that crap you did. You now attacked me based

- on referencing a 1993 paper (like truth has expiration)
- on a conversation with someone else (I am talking to you)
- on my beliefs (very democratic of you Mike)

Yet, you have not answered the key question of mine. Where is the edge, where is the beef Mike? Give me the edge that is publicly available here on ET Mike, I will backtest it and report to you the results since it was announced.

I get the feeling you are not a fund manager and that you have a serious communication and attitude problems Mike. That is too bad. I feel sorry about you Mike. I was not expecting that from you. You failed me Mike. If you believe I am wrong, you must prove it Mike. Prove it. There are ways of doing that. As long as you do not provide proof but instead attacking me, you are making a fool of yourself Mike. You ought to read this Mike

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

Very interesting read
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Dave, you're starting to really bore me... I was expecting more. Maybe my expectations are just too high?

Ok, last time:

I gave you references. Talon only has 379 posts as I write this... that's not a lot to go through, is it? If you had actually read those threads you would have found those methods *with* actual backtests. All the work has been done for you Dave.

MrPowerBallad provided a link that also has some good stuff in it. Some of those threads have backtests too.

TSGannGalt posted a link with several good papers.

How much more direction do you need Dave? The proof is right there, in plain sight, its been there for a while too. Many posters have contributed a lot of valuable research here over the years.

Yep... unfortunately I think that my expectations are just too high here. If you come back with something substantial then maybe I'll reply, but, at this point you're just a bit too dense to have any constructive conversation with.
 
Quote from talontrading:

I mean there are some common personality traits in the people who I have seen become successful (and aggression is not one of those common traits. There are aggressive traders but there also are many who are introverts. IntradayBill has only half the story and I suspect his experience is limited to prop desks where that attitude flies.) Maybe that is talent, but it also requires a lot of dedication, hard work and time to become successful.
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Would share a longer list of those personality traits?

Quote from talontrading:

And that's not a "book", it's a working paper. On the other hand, that guy did write a book that is required reading for everyone I've ever hired...
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Trading and Exchanges: Market Microstructure for Practitioners?
 
Quote from talontrading:

Well he can probably ignore the 150 or so where i just bashed that BoWo kid repeatedly lol. :)

Thanks for the kind words Mike.
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been at this game full time since 2000, and you never stop learning, improving and adapting. i've been reading, printing, reviewing and thinking about all the comments and perspectives talon, mike and a few others have been sharing since late 2009. some real darn good lessons. thanks!
 
"Give me the edge", "You must prove it Mike"...this guy is hilarious.

Mike, you are way too nice. You try to gently point him in the right direction to help him see how silly he looked with his big proclamation...and he comes back with a condescending post and a link to aspergers...and then calls you a fool...the irony is overwhelming.

Actually, this guy has the kind of empty overconfidence that makes me think he may be part of the BoWo clan down there in Kentucky. Only difference is that BoWo thinks everything is an edge.


Talon- Good to see you around...hope everything is going well.
 
Quote from bs2167:

"Give me the edge", "You must prove it Mike"...this guy is hilarious.

Mike, you are way too nice. You try to gently point him in the right direction to help him see how silly he looked with his big proclamation...and he comes back with a condescending post and a link to aspergers...and then calls you a fool...the irony is overwhelming.

Actually, this guy has the kind of empty overconfidence that makes me think he may be part of the BoWo clan down there in Kentucky. Only difference is that BoWo thinks everything is an edge.


Talon- Good to see you around...hope everything is going well.
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Thanks bs2167,

Upon re-reading my responses to these(this?) guy(s), i.e. intradaybill and/or dave, I do think I come across as a bit harsh... in fairness, I need to work on communicating, specifically in writing in a more neutral tone.

That said, this "does an edge exist" argument always creeps up from time to time. The progression of these threads is always somewhat predicatable in that regard:

Poster A: "No edges exist."

Poster B: "Yes they do, look here."

A: "I'm offended by you, you're an ****. No edges exist."

B: "Yes they do, look here. You're an **** too."

etc...

etc...

My hypothesis is that someone's ability to make it in this business is directly related to their ability to properly seperate bullshit from substance. Unfortunately, that requires effort and the strong possibility of repeated failure...

Mike
 
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