Confidence in George W. Bush

[Humpy]

Just one more point
GWB just can't seem to understand the simple fact that democracy is not only unwelcome in most 3rd world countries, it is also unworkable. By parachuting Democracy in from the West by force is setting up those committing to it, to a tragic fate ie death or exile. Well meant by the West though it is, it is really setting up a country for civil war. Democracy took 100s of years to evolve in Europe and America. It cant just be wished onto a country unused to such things. It is a fight for life and survival still in many countries. Even a mild criticism is often enough to be death sentence. The FSB (KGB) probably were the executioners of Litvinenko just last week for criticising Putin.
Democracy is probably no big deal anyway - its just hard to think up anything better.
Take a look at the countries surrounding Iraq. The leadership is dead in all of them if they let democracy flourish in Iraq. No it won't happen GWB, Condi et al sorry. Maybe in another 100+ years when they have forgotten the man from Texas.

 

[Avid_Consumer]

not to mention most of the muslims in the world already live in democratic countries. democratic countries that dont have to decide their elections in their courts.

 

[Sam321]

We should grab Iraq with both hands and seize real authority while setting up a proxy Arab democracy. We should send 300-500K more troops and seize the oil fields. We produce oil, not only to recover the costs of the war, but to rebuild Iraq, improve Iraqi standard of living, and most importantly, protect our long term economic interests the next time Islamists and Communists collude and jack up the global price of oil.

This is the REAL reason why the world opposed the Iraq invasion. They thought this is what Bush was planning to do in the first place. That’s why you never seek a global consensus if you want any economic advantage. You seek new coalitions but never a global consensus as a means to protect your national interests.

There is a complete disregard for our long-term economic interests. This pipe dream of an independent Iraqi democracy where we leave and get absolutely nothing is completely absurd.

When we take Iraq the old fashioned imperialistic way, this whole Iraq campaign begins to make sense. Anything short of this means we will give Iraq to Iran, which is ridiculous --especially in this current geopolitical climate when Islamists and Communists control too much of the world’s oil supply.

As for Bush, I think this is his instinct, but he is surrounded by Clinton holdovers in the State Dept. The man stands alone, and that’s difficult for any man.

Quote from Humpy:

Just one more point
GWB just can't seem to understand the simple fact that democracy is not only unwelcome in most 3rd world countries, it is also unworkable. By parachuting Democracy in from the West by force is setting up those committing to it, to a tragic fate ie death or exile. Well meant by the West though it is, it is really setting up a country for civil war. Democracy took 100s of years to evolve in Europe and America. It cant just be wished onto a country unused to such things. It is a fight for life and survival still in many countries. Even a mild criticism is often enough to be death sentence. The FSB (KGB) probably were the executioners of Litvinenko just last week for criticising Putin.
Democracy is probably no big deal anyway - its just hard to think up anything better.
Take a look at the countries surrounding Iraq. The leadership is dead in all of them if they let democracy flourish in Iraq. No it won't happen GWB, Condi et al sorry. Maybe in another 100+ years when they have forgotten the man from Texas.

 

[tradermaji]

Quote from Sam321:

We should grab Iraq with both hands and seize real authority while setting up a proxy Arab democracy. We should send 300-500K more troops and seize the oil fields. We produce oil, not only to recover the costs of the war, but to rebuild Iraq, improve Iraqi standard of living, and most importantly, protect our long term economic interests the next time Islamists and Communists collude and jack up the global price of oil.

This is the REAL reason why the world opposed the Iraq invasion. They thought this is what Bush was planning to do in the first place. That’s why you never seek a global consensus if you want any economic advantage. You seek new coalitions but never a global consensus as a means to protect your national interests.

There is a complete disregard for our long-term economic interests. This pipe dream of an independent Iraqi democracy where we leave and get absolutely nothing is completely absurd.

When we take Iraq the old fashioned imperialistic way, this whole Iraq campaign begins to make sense. Anything short of this means we will give Iraq to Iran, which is ridiculous --especially in this current geopolitical climate when Islamists and Communists control too much of the world’s oil supply.

As for Bush, I think this is his instinct, but he is surrounded by Clinton holdovers in the State Dept. The man stands alone, and that’s difficult for any man.

Screw those imperialistic ideas. Ideas perpetrated by women like Sam are the reason why US is now in this tough shit.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from Sam321:

We should grab Iraq with both hands

When we take Iraq the old fashioned imperialistic way

There's a fish called the coelecanth. It's described as a sort of 'living fossil'.

 

[Sam321]

That makes a lot of sense. Since when do women these days advocate war and imperialism?

Quote from tradermaji:

Screw those imperialistic ideas. Ideas perpetrated by women like Sam are the reason why US is now in this tough shit.

 

[Sam321]

I know, I know. The wave of the future is a “global village” of consensus, peace and understanding. No competition. No war. Just understanding. Global competition and war are for those savage relics of the past, right?

The more things change, the more they stay the same…

Quote from traderNik:

There's a fish called the coelecanth. It's described as a sort of 'living fossil'.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from Sam321:

I know, I know. The wave of the future is a “global village” of consensus, peace and understanding. No competition. No war. Just understanding. Global competition and war are for those savage relics of the past, right?

The more things change, the more they stay the same…

A child got spanked by his father for talking dirty. After the spanking, the father asked, "Have you learned your lesson?" The child nods but doesn't speak. He writes on a piece of paper, "No talking. Talking is bad. From now on, I'll shut my mouth and never say another word." He got another spanking...

 

[tradermaji]

Quote from Sam321:

That makes a lot of sense. Since when do women these days advocate war and imperialism?

Since women like you learnt to bitch.

 

[piezoe]

In my opinion, the Carter administration was, for the most part, the antithesis of the Bush administration. That does not rule out the possibility that both these administrations were/are horrible, but i don't see it that way.

Most of the problems Carter experienced were not of his own making. And, with some exceptions naturally, the Carter administration was fairly adept at dealing with a series of difficult situations. The measures Carter took to deal with the Arab oil embargo and the impasse between Isreal and the Palestinians are two examples where the actions of Carter's administration were effective. The most serious problems created by the Bush/Cheney administration, on the other hand, are entirely of their own making, and they offer only childish slogans in response.

I do fault Carter for not stepping in and preventing the Shaw from coming to New York for medical treatment. That turned out to be a serious policy mistake. At the time, the Shaw was reviled by a substantial part of the Iranian population, much as Hussein has been reviled by many in Iraq.

We have had, and continue to have, the unfortunate and misguided habit of interfering in the internal affairs of other countries for self-serving reasons that have often backfired. Our active support of these two despots, The Shaw and Hussein, are only two cases of endless examples of our being on the wrong side at the wrong time. The present administration has trumped these previous transgressions by deliberately attacking another nation for, it turns out, no good reason whatsoever. And then they insulted our intelligence by inventing reasons after the fact.

Perhaps the time has come to elect a President that is, at the minimum, well educated in the history and culture of other countires. Had we done that the last time around there would be thousands alive and well today that are now dead or maimed, our treasury would be at least one trillion dollars richer, and the US would not be looked upon as a dangerous, imperialist nation.