Compulsive Trading Disorder
- Thread starter cap'ncod
- Start date
You haven't really given any advice. You have just posted very long pieces that attempt to prove that all losing traders are psychopaths. Colourful but pointless. You have, however, made it clear that only highly capitalised institutions win in this game. This I agree on. But alas, at the end of the day, you appear to be just another algo orientated wanabee with absolutely no proof of a long-term financially gainful record. I'm sorry that you are unable to admit this, but I understand why: the ego prevents us from revealing the truth. I'm glad you appeared though, emg, because you're just further evidence to help me never 'reload' any trading account again. I thank you for that.
I would contest that due to the nature of leveraged derivatives it IS a gambler's paradise. It is extremely accessible. There are literally hundreds of firms promoting the possible rewards of futures trading. It's all about pushing the dream of easy riches. Then you have the industries that surround the brokerages, i.e. data, software, education etc, etc. They all keep the dream (Myth?) alive. Of course the elephant in the room among all this, are those that profit from the sheer volume of contracts traded by the hopeful mass of Gamblers.
You are not alone and the vast majority cannot admit their predicament. The culture we live in demonizes 'failure'. I think the truth is that Financial Gambling, euphemistically called 'Trading', feeds beautifully into this paradigm. It promises that with enough knowledge and the correct mental attitude etc, we can become wealthy, independent and happy. A true narcotic. Trading creates failure. Human's do not. We are capable of achieving wonderful things but the 'hook' of Trading and it's extensive mythology is literally anti-achievement. As we strive in a vain pursuit of extracting money from the markets (which are controlled and driven by those whose aim is literally to take money from the weaker (read retail) players, our constant losses and set-backs set us up for a cycle of failure, frustration, anger and ultimately self-hatred. We're on the hook and are given just enough dope of hope that it's knowledge and self-control that is lacking. If we change platforms; read this or that book, forum, blog etc. Find the secret, the Grail. It never ends and our misery is waiting in the wings while we play with the latest futile idea.
My point is that it's a cultural addiction, It's not a 'job' or 'business'. It's a wider issue than dopamine and substance addiction. As long as we call it a 'job' and a 'business' it makes it a rational and constructive pursuit, which we all know it's not. It is a belief in a myth which is backed by huge money to deceive us into thinking if we work hard and find the right recipe we can be 'winners'. We can be wealthy and be part of the chosen few. Boneo calls me a 'drunk', perhaps he's not far off and I would suggest most people on this site are 'drunk' on dreams. Our ego's demand things which trading could fulfill. Problem is truth gets in the way and the concrete reality of being outgunned by huge resources. If Bone was successful he wouldn't have to peddle a 'system' and this goes for the innumerable others that make money in the industry from selling the idea, not employing it. To make money in the 'Trading' industry you can:
Set up a Brokerage
Sell a 'strategy', concept, system etc.
Set up a website for the multitude of aspirents
Become a psychological 'coach'
Write a book
Join a bank (trade huge sums without immediate risk to your own life)
The sheer pointlessness of it and the way commodity speculation distorts world prices, causing disruption, high energy and food prices for many of the world's poor. The ethical basis of the whole industry and the spiritual harm it can cause the individual are linked in my view. I do not see Trading as 'rational business activity'. I do not see it as rational at all. I do not see it as a legitimate 'job'. Using these terms just propagates the myth that the retail trader can succeed at a game whose core function is to sucker weaker hands into the market and divest them of their cash. This is what the purpose of 'Trading' is. What else is it about? And the machine devotes huge resources to this very end. Of course all us suckers would stay away if all was laid bare but as I stated a mythology of potential wealth, independence and success has to be created and maintained through subtle propaganda for the machine to be fed with an endless supply of fresh, eager blood.
RCG. I'm afraid your're preaching to the coverted. Converted, that is, from the heresy of the Myth about leveraged retail derivatives trading and the fact that a snowball in hell has a greater chance of survival and to the light of acknowledgement and acceptence. Of course I now honestly believe that in the long run, be it two, five or ten years, when the sucker goes from pillar to post, having his balls kicked and head thumped innumerable time along the way that he will be worse off. Not only financially (in my case $30,000 and six years of my precious life) but also emotionally, psychologically and spiritually). I have been part of the Myth and even perpetuated it through false claims and lies. Why? Because like any other human being in our benighted culture (I'm a Brit but we share the same 'values' in the whole of western culture) I'm petrified of not being a 'success'. We delude ourselves and misinform others as we fear the truth. So the Myth goes on and to misquote, evil flourishes when good men do nothing. I'm not religious nor sentimental but I think this industry comes close to 'evil' in the harm it does to individuals and poorer societies generally. It is a very deep and wide issue and I honestly believe that no retail trader on this forum will 'succeed'. Institutional and smart money will flourish under certain conditions of course, for obvious reasons and I also now believe that much of the propaganda and myth is maintained by individuals working in the industry who proclaim to be small retail. We can never know, as the whole industry operates under strict secrecy (I know for a fact that employees have to sign non-disclosure agreements and we all know people are petfrifieid of litigation-another racket). As the late Christopher Hitchen's said, what does not have any substantiated evidence for existence (blind faith) can be similarly refuted without evidence. I have seen, like everybody else, absolutely no evidence to suggest even 5% of us suckers can make it pay in the long run. It's a myth and followed with blind faith, a true narcotic of insatiable desire.
I think the truth is that Financial Gambling, euphemistically called 'Trading', feeds beautifully into this paradigm. It promises that with enough knowledge and the correct mental attitude etc, we can become wealthy, independent and happy. A true narcotic. Trading creates failure. Human's do not. We are capable of achieving wonderful things but the 'hook' of Trading and it's extensive mythology is literally anti-achievement. As we strive in a vain pursuit of extracting money from the markets (which are controlled and driven by those whose aim is literally to take money from the weaker (read retail) players, our constant losses and set-backs set us up for a cycle of failure, frustration, anger and ultimately self-hatred. We're on the hook and are given just enough dope of hope that it's knowledge and self-control that is lacking. If we change platforms; read this or that book, forum, blog etc. Find the secret, the Grail. It never ends and our misery is waiting in the wings while we play with the latest futile idea.
If I make just one eager young guy walk away from a futile and doomed enterprise, I'd be happy. Forget the hype and the Myth. Reflect on the only logical conclusion you can arrive at: it's nothing to do with how smart you are, how patient and emotionally balanced you think you are. It's all to do with SIZE and RESOURCES. Let the Banks destroy the financial system without you effectively wiring them your money every day to pay their directors with.
Thank you for your contribution oraclewizard. I'm surprised that you haven't popped up before as what I'm asserting is directly counter to the purpose of Elite Trader. So, firstly, thank you for not silencing me and allowing heterdox views to be expressed. Time, money and patience is what you certainly give to the market. But you are doomed to lose. The poker player analogy is based on a number of guys sitting around a table- a level playing field. My analogy would be the dealer is playing to and has a knowledge of exactly the other players' strengths and weaknesses. He also has virtually limitless resources which means that he can go on until he's cleaned the others out. That's my analogy. I'm sorry but using words like 'edge','favourable risk to reward' etc is all part of the vocabulary of the Myth. A bit of 'basic math', a 'couple of years and a few books'. With all due respect, It sounds like a desperate attempt to convince the suckers to come and throw their money away. Oraclewizard pease prove me wrong and show me your account statements over the last year or two. Thanks.
Sure has been a good time to hold sound companies from an investment angle. The ponzi scheme of generating cheap money and then it surprisingly ending up creating a bubble in the markets has made some people very rich, no doubt. BUT, the smart money will be exiting with fat rewards from accessing very cheap money just as the retail investors start to pile in. They have to take their profits at some point. As the economic metrics start to improve it gets closer to this 'correction'. If you put your ear closer enough to Wall Street, you can hear the saliva beginning to wash around the jowls of the financial mandarins. The racket of Day Trading also exists in the longer time frame. The old paradigm of riding bull-market trends when the cycle has troughed is over. The new paradigm is a dynamic super intelligent machine that couldn't give a toss about classical economics. It exists to TAKE MONEY from weaker hands. Be they grandad's 401k or little Jimmy's adventures in Forex land. At the hight of the UK economy, nearly 30% of GDP was generated from 'financial services'. Hedge fund, Banks, Brokers paradise. Cheap money and the means to leverage it. Make no mistake, they want these days back. The champagne to flow again. They are coming back and they are hungrier, smarter and loaded thanks to all the QE.
You are not alone and the vast majority cannot admit their predicament. The culture we live in demonizes 'failure'. I think the truth is that Financial Gambling, euphemistically called 'Trading', feeds beautifully into this paradigm. It promises that with enough knowledge and the correct mental attitude etc, we can become wealthy, independent and happy. A true narcotic. Trading creates failure. Human's do not. We are capable of achieving wonderful things but the 'hook' of Trading and it's extensive mythology is literally anti-achievement. As we strive in a vain pursuit of extracting money from the markets (which are controlled and driven by those whose aim is literally to take money from the weaker (read retail) players, our constant losses and set-backs set us up for a cycle of failure, frustration, anger and ultimately self-hatred. We're on the hook and are given just enough dope of hope that it's knowledge and self-control that is lacking. If we change platforms; read this or that book, forum, blog etc. Find the secret, the Grail. It never ends and our misery is waiting in the wings while we play with the latest futile idea.
My point is that it's a cultural addiction, It's not a 'job' or 'business'. It's a wider issue than dopamine and substance addiction. As long as we call it a 'job' and a 'business' it makes it a rational and constructive pursuit, which we all know it's not. It is a belief in a myth which is backed by huge money to deceive us into thinking if we work hard and find the right recipe we can be 'winners'. We can be wealthy and be part of the chosen few. Boneo calls me a 'drunk', perhaps he's not far off and I would suggest most people on this site are 'drunk' on dreams. Our ego's demand things which trading could fulfill. Problem is truth gets in the way and the concrete reality of being outgunned by huge resources. If Bone was successful he wouldn't have to peddle a 'system' and this goes for the innumerable others that make money in the industry from selling the idea, not employing it. To make money in the 'Trading' industry you can:
Set up a Brokerage
Sell a 'strategy', concept, system etc.
Set up a website for the multitude of aspirents
Become a psychological 'coach'
Write a book
Join a bank (trade huge sums without immediate risk to your own life)
The sheer pointlessness of it and the way commodity speculation distorts world prices, causing disruption, high energy and food prices for many of the world's poor. The ethical basis of the whole industry and the spiritual harm it can cause the individual are linked in my view. I do not see Trading as 'rational business activity'. I do not see it as rational at all. I do not see it as a legitimate 'job'. Using these terms just propagates the myth that the retail trader can succeed at a game whose core function is to sucker weaker hands into the market and divest them of their cash. This is what the purpose of 'Trading' is. What else is it about? And the machine devotes huge resources to this very end. Of course all us suckers would stay away if all was laid bare but as I stated a mythology of potential wealth, independence and success has to be created and maintained through subtle propaganda for the machine to be fed with an endless supply of fresh, eager blood.
RCG. I'm afraid your're preaching to the coverted. Converted, that is, from the heresy of the Myth about leveraged retail derivatives trading and the fact that a snowball in hell has a greater chance of survival and to the light of acknowledgement and acceptence. Of course I now honestly believe that in the long run, be it two, five or ten years, when the sucker goes from pillar to post, having his balls kicked and head thumped innumerable time along the way that he will be worse off. Not only financially (in my case $30,000 and six years of my precious life) but also emotionally, psychologically and spiritually). I have been part of the Myth and even perpetuated it through false claims and lies. Why? Because like any other human being in our benighted culture (I'm a Brit but we share the same 'values' in the whole of western culture) I'm petrified of not being a 'success'. We delude ourselves and misinform others as we fear the truth. So the Myth goes on and to misquote, evil flourishes when good men do nothing. I'm not religious nor sentimental but I think this industry comes close to 'evil' in the harm it does to individuals and poorer societies generally. It is a very deep and wide issue and I honestly believe that no retail trader on this forum will 'succeed'. Institutional and smart money will flourish under certain conditions of course, for obvious reasons and I also now believe that much of the propaganda and myth is maintained by individuals working in the industry who proclaim to be small retail. We can never know, as the whole industry operates under strict secrecy (I know for a fact that employees have to sign non-disclosure agreements and we all know people are petfrifieid of litigation-another racket). As the late Christopher Hitchen's said, what does not have any substantiated evidence for existence (blind faith) can be similarly refuted without evidence. I have seen, like everybody else, absolutely no evidence to suggest even 5% of us suckers can make it pay in the long run. It's a myth and followed with blind faith, a true narcotic of insatiable desire.
I think the truth is that Financial Gambling, euphemistically called 'Trading', feeds beautifully into this paradigm. It promises that with enough knowledge and the correct mental attitude etc, we can become wealthy, independent and happy. A true narcotic. Trading creates failure. Human's do not. We are capable of achieving wonderful things but the 'hook' of Trading and it's extensive mythology is literally anti-achievement. As we strive in a vain pursuit of extracting money from the markets (which are controlled and driven by those whose aim is literally to take money from the weaker (read retail) players, our constant losses and set-backs set us up for a cycle of failure, frustration, anger and ultimately self-hatred. We're on the hook and are given just enough dope of hope that it's knowledge and self-control that is lacking. If we change platforms; read this or that book, forum, blog etc. Find the secret, the Grail. It never ends and our misery is waiting in the wings while we play with the latest futile idea.
If I make just one eager young guy walk away from a futile and doomed enterprise, I'd be happy. Forget the hype and the Myth. Reflect on the only logical conclusion you can arrive at: it's nothing to do with how smart you are, how patient and emotionally balanced you think you are. It's all to do with SIZE and RESOURCES. Let the Banks destroy the financial system without you effectively wiring them your money every day to pay their directors with.
Thank you for your contribution oraclewizard. I'm surprised that you haven't popped up before as what I'm asserting is directly counter to the purpose of Elite Trader. So, firstly, thank you for not silencing me and allowing heterdox views to be expressed. Time, money and patience is what you certainly give to the market. But you are doomed to lose. The poker player analogy is based on a number of guys sitting around a table- a level playing field. My analogy would be the dealer is playing to and has a knowledge of exactly the other players' strengths and weaknesses. He also has virtually limitless resources which means that he can go on until he's cleaned the others out. That's my analogy. I'm sorry but using words like 'edge','favourable risk to reward' etc is all part of the vocabulary of the Myth. A bit of 'basic math', a 'couple of years and a few books'. With all due respect, It sounds like a desperate attempt to convince the suckers to come and throw their money away. Oraclewizard pease prove me wrong and show me your account statements over the last year or two. Thanks.
Sure has been a good time to hold sound companies from an investment angle. The ponzi scheme of generating cheap money and then it surprisingly ending up creating a bubble in the markets has made some people very rich, no doubt. BUT, the smart money will be exiting with fat rewards from accessing very cheap money just as the retail investors start to pile in. They have to take their profits at some point. As the economic metrics start to improve it gets closer to this 'correction'. If you put your ear closer enough to Wall Street, you can hear the saliva beginning to wash around the jowls of the financial mandarins. The racket of Day Trading also exists in the longer time frame. The old paradigm of riding bull-market trends when the cycle has troughed is over. The new paradigm is a dynamic super intelligent machine that couldn't give a toss about classical economics. It exists to TAKE MONEY from weaker hands. Be they grandad's 401k or little Jimmy's adventures in Forex land. At the hight of the UK economy, nearly 30% of GDP was generated from 'financial services'. Hedge fund, Banks, Brokers paradise. Cheap money and the means to leverage it. Make no mistake, they want these days back. The champagne to flow again. They are coming back and they are hungrier, smarter and loaded thanks to all the QE.
I am not against higher learning. Actually, I think most people should get normal careers like I did when I ran IT operations for a large company after I got some specialized certs after graduating from college.
What I am saying is you don't have to be a genius like me, maybe it would have taken less time to be successful if you are not as smart as I am.
I also agree that if you are just graduating college, you should look to get into a big firm like Goldman and not trade your own money. Have a career 1st. I see these people saying they want to trade and they are in college or just graduated, and I like EMG would warn them not to go into trading. I am not here to shut anyone up.
I moderate here, but I have not deleted any of your posts. If it helps your pain to shout out to the world that you are a loser, have at it. I am not going to try to have the last word. I just want to put out some facts that it is possible to win at trading.
Some of it is just experience. I was looking to get long today on the instrument I was trading. It shot up, and I missed the trade, and then got long much higher than I wanted to get long on a different setup while hedging my risk with a different instrument. I then hit my target while killing my short at a small loss. Yes, it would have been better to just get in that long at the 1st price, but I ended today at a profit, just like I ended this week at a profit with no losing days and just 1 break even day. Once you start seeing in the past what you would have done wrong on a trade you missed, you see the right way to take the profit, it becomes a moment of clarity just like if you have a full house and know the other player has 3 of kind and that you know you are going to win, and that he has no clue. For those of you who are beyond help, just get on with your lives, try to get a job or something. I heard the economy is improving. It may be better time then spent here crying in a virtual bar.
Coffee is for closers bitches!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGZmSqYg_JM
What I am saying is you don't have to be a genius like me, maybe it would have taken less time to be successful if you are not as smart as I am.
I also agree that if you are just graduating college, you should look to get into a big firm like Goldman and not trade your own money. Have a career 1st. I see these people saying they want to trade and they are in college or just graduated, and I like EMG would warn them not to go into trading. I am not here to shut anyone up.
I moderate here, but I have not deleted any of your posts. If it helps your pain to shout out to the world that you are a loser, have at it. I am not going to try to have the last word. I just want to put out some facts that it is possible to win at trading.
Some of it is just experience. I was looking to get long today on the instrument I was trading. It shot up, and I missed the trade, and then got long much higher than I wanted to get long on a different setup while hedging my risk with a different instrument. I then hit my target while killing my short at a small loss. Yes, it would have been better to just get in that long at the 1st price, but I ended today at a profit, just like I ended this week at a profit with no losing days and just 1 break even day. Once you start seeing in the past what you would have done wrong on a trade you missed, you see the right way to take the profit, it becomes a moment of clarity just like if you have a full house and know the other player has 3 of kind and that you know you are going to win, and that he has no clue. For those of you who are beyond help, just get on with your lives, try to get a job or something. I heard the economy is improving. It may be better time then spent here crying in a virtual bar.
Coffee is for closers bitches!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGZmSqYg_JM