Compulsive Trading Disorder
- Thread starter cap'ncod
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http://video.pbs.org/video/2210555122/
An interesting article posted elsewhere on the forum. You don't really have to be the most insightful individual to imagine the huge resources dedicated to extracting money from the markets. And where are their winnings coming from? Again, it's really not difficult to see, as with natural law generally, it's being taken from all retail and many smaller firms. Even if you think you can slay Goliath with your coding skills and i7 8gig Windows 7 64 bit, coupled with a 10ms fibre connection, just forget it. If you're smart do something productive and worthwhile. Do not throw your money and precious time away. If I make just one eager young guy walk away from a futile and doomed enterprise, I'd be happy. Forget the hype and the Myth. Reflect on the only logical conclusion you can arrive at: it's nothing to do with how smart you are, how patient and emotionally balanced you think you are. It's all to do with SIZE and RESOURCES. Let the Banks destroy the financial system without you effectively wiring them your money every day to pay their directors with.
An interesting article posted elsewhere on the forum. You don't really have to be the most insightful individual to imagine the huge resources dedicated to extracting money from the markets. And where are their winnings coming from? Again, it's really not difficult to see, as with natural law generally, it's being taken from all retail and many smaller firms. Even if you think you can slay Goliath with your coding skills and i7 8gig Windows 7 64 bit, coupled with a 10ms fibre connection, just forget it. If you're smart do something productive and worthwhile. Do not throw your money and precious time away. If I make just one eager young guy walk away from a futile and doomed enterprise, I'd be happy. Forget the hype and the Myth. Reflect on the only logical conclusion you can arrive at: it's nothing to do with how smart you are, how patient and emotionally balanced you think you are. It's all to do with SIZE and RESOURCES. Let the Banks destroy the financial system without you effectively wiring them your money every day to pay their directors with.
Obviously, if you just turn on the computer and start trading with real money and no plan or edge, you will probably not succeed.
If you have a plan, an edge, good money management, you will succeed.
To find an edge, you can get a mentor, read some of the real books, practice on sim, and then start slowly with a small account until you build it up and can trade more contracts.
It seems many of you posting here, are like well I tried trading for a year or 2, blew up my account so everyone else must do the same.
Like anything else in life that you want to succeed at, it takes time, money, patience, and the ability to recognize what you are doing wrong, and change the behavior. If you start to revenge trade, limit the number of trades and amount you are going to risk per trade. You can't lose on a trade with 1 contract, and try to get back at the market by doing 3 contracts. Unless you have a insanely high win %, you can't hold your losers longer than your winners. Also, you have to accept the fact that you will lose on certain trades, and not to chase trades if you missed your setup.
I am sure some people do trade like they gamble so they may have a gambling disorder. I on the other hand watch my setups work on most days. I probably don't trade enough since I don't like to spend that long watching charts in real time. I have not seen any system except for the big HFT that can trade over 50 times per day and be successful.
Be a successful trader is the same as being a professional poker player. You are waiting for the odds to be in your favor and then betting. You may say well some poker players bluff, but the pros know when a bluff will work or not. The main difference between trading and playing poker is many traders don't know when the odds are in their favor. They can't recognize a profitable setup, so they will guess or have wide stops.
If you are not willingly to put in a couple years to learn and succeed, don't want to spend money on mentors or books, then yes don't trade, it may not be for you. If you are willingly to put in the time and money, then yes, its very possible to succeed. The people posting here about trying to prevent you from trading is because they are losers and can't stand for anyone to succeed when they were not able to. They don't want to believe that there are elite traders out there since it will conflict with their psychological ego that they developed to protect them from the fact that the truth is they did not succeed since they are unwillingly to ask for and/or pay for the help needed to succeed.
Yes, there are many shills out there that teach fake ways to trade that don't work. There is no certified school of trading like there is for doctors or lawyers. However, there is also no certified school that will make you into a professional poker player or basketball star. The truth is you don't need to be a genius to succeed at trading, but you do have to have some basic math and statistics skills so you can analysis your win rate and determine how much to risk vs reward for each trade setup. You also have to build up the balls to take the trade when you see your setup, and not second guess yourself.
If you have a plan, an edge, good money management, you will succeed.
To find an edge, you can get a mentor, read some of the real books, practice on sim, and then start slowly with a small account until you build it up and can trade more contracts.
It seems many of you posting here, are like well I tried trading for a year or 2, blew up my account so everyone else must do the same.
Like anything else in life that you want to succeed at, it takes time, money, patience, and the ability to recognize what you are doing wrong, and change the behavior. If you start to revenge trade, limit the number of trades and amount you are going to risk per trade. You can't lose on a trade with 1 contract, and try to get back at the market by doing 3 contracts. Unless you have a insanely high win %, you can't hold your losers longer than your winners. Also, you have to accept the fact that you will lose on certain trades, and not to chase trades if you missed your setup.
I am sure some people do trade like they gamble so they may have a gambling disorder. I on the other hand watch my setups work on most days. I probably don't trade enough since I don't like to spend that long watching charts in real time. I have not seen any system except for the big HFT that can trade over 50 times per day and be successful.
Be a successful trader is the same as being a professional poker player. You are waiting for the odds to be in your favor and then betting. You may say well some poker players bluff, but the pros know when a bluff will work or not. The main difference between trading and playing poker is many traders don't know when the odds are in their favor. They can't recognize a profitable setup, so they will guess or have wide stops.
If you are not willingly to put in a couple years to learn and succeed, don't want to spend money on mentors or books, then yes don't trade, it may not be for you. If you are willingly to put in the time and money, then yes, its very possible to succeed. The people posting here about trying to prevent you from trading is because they are losers and can't stand for anyone to succeed when they were not able to. They don't want to believe that there are elite traders out there since it will conflict with their psychological ego that they developed to protect them from the fact that the truth is they did not succeed since they are unwillingly to ask for and/or pay for the help needed to succeed.
Yes, there are many shills out there that teach fake ways to trade that don't work. There is no certified school of trading like there is for doctors or lawyers. However, there is also no certified school that will make you into a professional poker player or basketball star. The truth is you don't need to be a genius to succeed at trading, but you do have to have some basic math and statistics skills so you can analysis your win rate and determine how much to risk vs reward for each trade setup. You also have to build up the balls to take the trade when you see your setup, and not second guess yourself.
Thank you for your contribution oraclewizard. I'm surprised that you haven't popped up before as what I'm asserting is directly counter to the purpose of Elite Trader. So, firstly, thank you for not silencing me and allowing heterdox views to be expressed. Time, money and patience is what you certainly give to the market. But you are doomed to lose. The poker player analogy is based on a number of guys sitting around a table- a level playing field. My analogy would be the dealer is playing to and has a knowledge of exactly the other players' strengths and weaknesses. He also has virtually limitless resources which means that he can go on until he's cleaned the others out. That's my analogy. I'm sorry but using words like 'edge','favourable risk to reward' etc is all part of the vocabulary of the Myth. A bit of 'basic math', a 'couple of years and a few books'. With all due respect, It sounds like a desperate attempt to convince the suckers to come and throw their money away. Oraclewizard pease prove me wrong and show me your account statements over the last year or two. Thanks.
people have this problem normally try to let the market do what they want, just order the market to do things.
I have this problem too. my method to conquer it is:
shut down the computer. do something else. let my mind cool down.
when you have a position, if it is not in your favor, put a maximum loss stop and shut down your computer, do not think about that position, watch TV or others.
when you take a risk, look at your account, if your account is 50k, then do one future contract, lie in the big direction, ignore daily chops, wait until you are in winning position. ignore all technicals and fundamenbtal stuff.
if your account is $3k, you must have 300bucks maximum stop loss and super accurate timing skills, you can not get in and hold, wait for your favor. you must time your trade correctly and accurately. even in a big trend, a small correction will kick you out of the game. and totally focus on planning, winning: almost 100% right. after you lift one, you will breathe better. that will put you in a winning position. zoom on in every trade like that is my last bet: I must win. check tech to time and fundamental to see the right bet.
the time when I have this problem is when I learned to trade using hard stop loss. hard stop loss is totally misleading. do not use hard stop loss, that is a sure way to let you have this problem.
I corrected this problem by ignoring stop loss. I studied CSCO years ago, and bought one small lot (no matter what happens, my account does not hurt), but not in my favor, I waited, waited ..... after three weeks, my csco positions finally in my favor, that trade taught me a lesson, totally changed my view about stop loss. late I never use stop loss, and I stopped my impulsive tradung problem.
when I have a stop loss there, particularly if stop out and finally in my favor, I will get emotional: may charge in again, obviously it is too late, or try to quickly get the money back....so the impulsive trading.
Martin schwartz did averaging down to 3k in his mesa option trade when he quit his job, but he hold on, end up winning 8k. if he dumped and lost 3k, I bet he could not go on again...
hold on , favor is shifting. belief in "every dog has its day". do not listen to those brokage': they want you to use stop loss, so they can get commisions
if I hold on my NQ at 2000 in credit rating downgrade, or 2008/2009, my YM at 6500, my take in crude at 40, I win big now!
I have this problem too. my method to conquer it is:
shut down the computer. do something else. let my mind cool down.
when you have a position, if it is not in your favor, put a maximum loss stop and shut down your computer, do not think about that position, watch TV or others.
when you take a risk, look at your account, if your account is 50k, then do one future contract, lie in the big direction, ignore daily chops, wait until you are in winning position. ignore all technicals and fundamenbtal stuff.
if your account is $3k, you must have 300bucks maximum stop loss and super accurate timing skills, you can not get in and hold, wait for your favor. you must time your trade correctly and accurately. even in a big trend, a small correction will kick you out of the game. and totally focus on planning, winning: almost 100% right. after you lift one, you will breathe better. that will put you in a winning position. zoom on in every trade like that is my last bet: I must win. check tech to time and fundamental to see the right bet.
the time when I have this problem is when I learned to trade using hard stop loss. hard stop loss is totally misleading. do not use hard stop loss, that is a sure way to let you have this problem.
I corrected this problem by ignoring stop loss. I studied CSCO years ago, and bought one small lot (no matter what happens, my account does not hurt), but not in my favor, I waited, waited ..... after three weeks, my csco positions finally in my favor, that trade taught me a lesson, totally changed my view about stop loss. late I never use stop loss, and I stopped my impulsive tradung problem.
when I have a stop loss there, particularly if stop out and finally in my favor, I will get emotional: may charge in again, obviously it is too late, or try to quickly get the money back....so the impulsive trading.
Martin schwartz did averaging down to 3k in his mesa option trade when he quit his job, but he hold on, end up winning 8k. if he dumped and lost 3k, I bet he could not go on again...
hold on , favor is shifting. belief in "every dog has its day". do not listen to those brokage': they want you to use stop loss, so they can get commisions
if I hold on my NQ at 2000 in credit rating downgrade, or 2008/2009, my YM at 6500, my take in crude at 40, I win big now!
u are not successful yet. right? if u not successful because u believe the comment u wrote above. Higher Education is the key to become a successful trader.
Higher Education!
Quote from steve.k.tang:
For the people who want a serious trading job here's my advice. You need solid programming skills, preferrably in C, Python or VB and strong excel skills. A passion for trading and programming skills will get u a job as a developer on the trading desk. This will help open your mind to trading ideas as well as properly test your strategies. Its hard to backtest using daily data when you want to trade intraday. Are trades stopped out before they become profitable? So do I have to trade intraday? You'll notice that many smaller firms don't have the risk limits to allow you to hold overnight. Hope that helps
Steve K. Tang didnt need to write 6 paragraphs on idea of how to become a successful trader. He only wrote 1 simple paragraph. Working in the house will open up trading ideas and be able to use the House advanced technology (servers, platforms, etc) not KNOWN in public. To get in the HOUSE, one must need higher education degree and need to pass the psychopaths interview test
Sure has been a good time to hold sound companies from an investment angle. The ponzi scheme of generating cheap money and then it surprisingly ending up creating a bubble in the markets has made some people very rich, no doubt. BUT, the smart money will be exiting with fat rewards from accessing very cheap money just as the retail investors start to pile in. They have to take their profits at some point. As the economic metrics start to improve it gets closer to this 'correction'. If you put your ear closer enough to Wall Street, you can hear the saliva beginning to wash around the jowls of the financial mandarins. The racket of Day Trading also exists in the longer time frame. The old paradigm of riding bull-market trends when the cycle has troughed is over. The new paradigm is a dynamic super intelligent machine that couldn't give a toss about classical economics. It exists to TAKE MONEY from weaker hands. Be they grandad's 401k or little Jimmy's adventures in Forex land. At the hight of the UK economy, nearly 30% of GDP was generated from 'financial services'. Hedge fund, Banks, Brokers paradise. Cheap money and the means to leverage it. Make no mistake, they want these days back. The champagne to flow again. They are coming back and they are hungrier, smarter and loaded thanks to all the QE.
Another 'Trader' in denial, then. When the wind's blowing the wrong direction on this site the smell of BS can be overpowering. This thread is for those who are genuinely seeking truth and not for more unsubstantiated claims of 'Trading' success. If you have to do that still, and are not ready to face your own truth, then post on the other side of the fence, with all the other deluded suckers. A place where, I repeat, there is not one scrap of evidence to show that a retail player can be long-term profitable.This side is for those who have the courage to face up to the hard logic of certain failure. If, on the other hand, you work for a bank and have made a salary from exploiting you preferential position, then well done.