Complex Event Processing/Event Stream Processing
- Thread starter zzt
- Start date
It's not even remotely false and misleading. Your link, nor your ambiguous comment contradict what I posted. Thanks for singing up to let us know though, hahaha. Gotta love people who link what they can't explain and you just have to give them props when they don't understand what they link.
ESP processes single streams of data. CEP deals with mutliple streams, which can be combinations of multiple single streams or rules on streams, etc. T&S is an example of an ESP stream, while VWAP is a good example of a CEP stream. If you think CEP is "more more complex", then that's fine... but, it seems pretty simple to me.
To process either of those streams in real-time, I need an in-memory db which the verbose ESP/CEP vendor you posted the link to above provides. There are other, more esoteric solutions, that occur on the switching level, but tibco, and probably all the commercially available stream products in finance, are software based solutions.
As squeeze mentioned, a good multi-threaded c++ architecture using hashed arrays or some sort of custom binary-tree will outperform most of these "CEP/ESP engines" on the market. It really isn't as complex as they make it out to be, but then, who would buy it if it didn't sound so cool and complex?
i think the issue of pattern reckonition and trader profiling is now more paramount than ever.
i hear all the time that traders are moaning this never happened before with my system and why is it at that exact point i am trying to get a profit the market seems to know what way i am.
the fact is that there are a very few , very complex strategies running that are way beyond what some so called programmers on this thread are doing.
these guys are using systems along the lines of fluid flow dynamics and recently formulas linked to how a human body immune system can detect a foreign invader and attack it.
these kind of systems are not for sale and will be used by the people making money out of us at the moment.
as for ' apama ' and some of the other off the shelf systems my arguement is the same old one. if its so good and profitable then why do they need to sell it.
the answer is its very basic and relies on old techniques that no longer work in the new environment.
as for the a lot of talk i keep hearing we all need to evolve our trading and move on. jesus this is the under statement of the year.
most old school businesses have been decimated by technology advances in the last 20 years and now its our turn.
i no longer try to compete with speed, execution and black boxes.
my evolvement has been this:
this is my view. this is my position. this is my take profit and this is my stop loss.
im right or wrong and avoid all the noise in the middle.
as for an off the shelf, black box, white box, grey box, algo techo bullshit system forget it.
they do not exist to make money for traders only money for the people who sell it.
i hear all the time that traders are moaning this never happened before with my system and why is it at that exact point i am trying to get a profit the market seems to know what way i am.
the fact is that there are a very few , very complex strategies running that are way beyond what some so called programmers on this thread are doing.
these guys are using systems along the lines of fluid flow dynamics and recently formulas linked to how a human body immune system can detect a foreign invader and attack it.
these kind of systems are not for sale and will be used by the people making money out of us at the moment.
as for ' apama ' and some of the other off the shelf systems my arguement is the same old one. if its so good and profitable then why do they need to sell it.
the answer is its very basic and relies on old techniques that no longer work in the new environment.
as for the a lot of talk i keep hearing we all need to evolve our trading and move on. jesus this is the under statement of the year.
most old school businesses have been decimated by technology advances in the last 20 years and now its our turn.
i no longer try to compete with speed, execution and black boxes.
my evolvement has been this:
this is my view. this is my position. this is my take profit and this is my stop loss.
im right or wrong and avoid all the noise in the middle.
as for an off the shelf, black box, white box, grey box, algo techo bullshit system forget it.
they do not exist to make money for traders only money for the people who sell it.
Certainly lots of hard sell going on a the moment. I get spam on CEP/ESP, database technology, datafeeds almost every day. Lots of vendors tying to use new regs e.g RegNMS, Mifid as an opportunity to cash in.
Most this stuff is fine for enterprise solutions but when it comes to highly specific and optimised trading applications you just can't beat hand crafted code.
There is also the issue of code ownership to consider. If you hand code apps then you know what's going on under the hood and can easily modify it if needed.
Most this stuff is fine for enterprise solutions but when it comes to highly specific and optimised trading applications you just can't beat hand crafted code.
There is also the issue of code ownership to consider. If you hand code apps then you know what's going on under the hood and can easily modify it if needed.
It's obvious you are biased and you think CEP is only "in-memory database processing" as you posted earlier.
You actually have very little knowledge of what you are talking about and if you read the links with an open mind, and intellect engaged, you would quickly see that CEP is not simply "in-memory database processing".
PS: I have a feeling you really want me to teach you, but you are either too biased or too proud to ask.
OTOH, it is not my "job" to do your reading and homework for you, but it you want me to spoon feed it to you, please ask nicely and I will teach you. But, you should do your reading and homework first, and be able to answer basic questions about CEP, ESP, event-processing, EDA, messaging, CCL, rules engines, Bayesian and neural analytics, Rete, and a whole lot more.
Your knowledge is good, but only scratches the surface of CEP, ESP and event processing.
Quote from snaggydog:
Because software vendors are in the business of selling software not trading.
Your logic, if applied to food, would be like this:
"If their food is so good, why do they sell it and not eat it!"
yes i confess your logic makes more sense than mine.
i have a system that makes billions of dollars per year.
how much is this system please?
99.99 per month sir to you.
yes that really makes sense.
they are in the business of selling the illusion that their system makes money.
wake up and smell the coffee.
ps if you are interested i have a machine that can find diamonds in the ground. its your for a tenner. let me know.
I am very interested in this machine. Please could you send me one immediately.
Regards
Tetramorium
Unfortunately, your analogy is fundamentally flawed.
You seem to be mistakenly equating ESP/CEP product vendors with trading system vendors. Perhaps you are not aware that ESP/CEP products are just software components - not trading systems.
ESP/CEP products are just tools - one of many tools available to a software architect to build a particular solution. They have applications in many areas outside of trading.
Vendors of these products are just like vendors of other software products such as Microsoft. They sell their wares to consumers who might have a use for them. For example, Microsoft sells Office to consumers that need office productivity software.
You could ask, why does Microsoft sell Excel to banks when they could use Excel to make their own trading systems to make billions?
The point is that Excel is just a tool/technology that different people can put to use in different ways. Excel is used in may areas outside of trading. If you have used Excel then this should be clear to you.
Similarly, ESP/CEP products are just a tool/technology that different people can put to use in different ways.
Trading systems could not be built without making use of other software components or libraries. Using ESP/CEP in a trading system is just using another software component to build a system.
I hope I have cleared up the confusion. The comparison between trading system vendors and software component vendors is clearly nonsensical in this context.