Complaint - GME liquidation problem which resulted in huge negative liquidation value

[Butterfly]

We are speaking about 5 options in one of the most traded stocks of that day. I am not an expert, but I can tell you that volume/price match could not be a big problem at all in 4 hours. If I had 500000 options, probably yes.

that's why roaring kitty can't liquidate his options, he is fucked and has to hold.

what's the multiplier on those options? 5 with the multiplier gives you a large notional, I think you mentioned 50,000 loss, so still a sizable trade in a market with a known "liquidity" problem. Option exchanges are small "pockets" or "sillots" of bid/ask so market depth is not continuous like a very liquid stock.

you need to look at the bid/ask volume in real time for options, it's fascinating. It's not a NBBO, it jumps all over the place, and many of those options are small numbers, like 1 or 2 or 3. If the perceived risk is super high, then you are going to get crush and nobody is going to come save you with the bid/ask you were hoping for.

 

[Butterfly]

a lot of "traders" and "bots" like to test the options markets, so they put in bid/ask only for a few seconds before someone take them, just to see how they can influence the bid/ask curve. Like I said, watching the bid/ask tape of an option even for a largecap stock can be fascinating and a learning experience.

 

[Bad_Badness]

Baldur,
All the experience people are telling you to move on, AND you admit it was your fault. The newbies are telling you, your right it was their fault. Yet you still want to pin some blame on IB. Yes, there were problems at IB. So what? It is true but you need deal with it. It happens. But this BLAME GAME is a MUCH larger issue.

This is like driving fast in a wet snow storm, in the mountains with broken windshield wipers and bald urban tires. 3/4 were directly your negligence. One you could have predicted because IT HAPPENS and is not unexpected.

You make a crazy fast money bet. You did not hedge or manage the risk. You did it on a stock that was out of balance with the market. You did not cover or put in some type of MKT stop. They call it NAKED for a reason. These require the most experience for options trades. Do you really have 10 year of Options experience as IB would ask you to? Or did you cheat, like the RH, survey, and just put in the right response to allow these types of trades?

You probably would be VERY HAPPY if you were up 50K and not complaining, maybe even bragging about it.

Sorry for the harsh tone, but this is not good for you.

 

[Baldur01]

that's why roaring kitty can't liquidate his options, he is fucked and has to hold.

what's the multiplier on those options? 5 with the multiplier gives you a large notional, I think you mentioned 50,000 loss, so still a sizable trade in a market with a known "liquidity" problem. Option exchanges are small "pockets" or "sillots" of bid/ask so market depth is not continuous like a very liquid stock.

you need to look at the bid/ask volume in real time for options, it's fascinating. It's not a NBBO, it jumps all over the place, and many of those options are small numbers, like 1 or 2 or 3. If the perceived risk is super high, then you are going to get crush and nobody is going to come save you with the bid/ask you were hoping for.

Thank you, valid point. I was already looking at the volume of that call option with Exercise Price of 115. There was huge volume that day. I even ready articles that the stock was trading like big tech on that day.

 

[Baldur01]

Baldur,
All the experience people are telling you to move on, AND you admit it was your fault. Yet you still want to pin some blame on IB. This is a MUCH larger issue, imo.

You make a crazy fast money bet. You did not hedge or manage the risk. You did it on a stock that was out of balance with the market. You did not cover or put in some type of MKT stop. They call it NAKED for a reason. These require the most experience for options trades. Do you really have 10 year of Options experience as IB would ask you to?

Thats a good point I dont recall that IB was asking me for 10 years option experience. More like 2 years or so.

 

[Butterfly]

I have made a few "options" trades on Midcap and SmallCap stocks, ITM, or OTM, and it's a humble experience.

My models were expecting a certain price for my calls, but I could never get that price, always overpaying if I wanted to execute the trade before the underlying was taking off. Of course, when I was ITM, and trying to sell them back, and make a profit, there was no market for those premium calls, I couldn't lock in the price/volume I was looking for, so had to sell at a "discount".

 

[destriero]

I tried some times to call during the 4 hours. Try to get to them on a normal day. Imagine getting to them on exactly that day. Had no luck.

C'mon, the trade desk was unavailable? I think that you're FOS.

All that you're doing is assuring that no legit broker will touch your taint.

 

[Baldur01]

I have made a few "options" trades on Midcap and SmallCap stocks, ITM, or OTM, and it's a humble experience.

My models were expecting a certain price for my calls, but I could never get that price, always overpaying if I wanted to execute the trade before the underlying was taking off. Of course, when I was ITM, and trying to sell them back, and make a profit, there was no market for those premium calls, I couldn't lock in the price/volume I was looking for, so had to sell at a "discount".

They liquidated me at 213USD option price, prices went up from 65USD. Quite a premium to pay.

 

[Butterfly]

Thank you, valid point. I was already looking at the volume of that call option with Exercise Price of 115. There was huge volume that day. I even ready articles that the stock was trading like big tech on that day.

that's the problem, you were making assumptions and using this as your main reason to trade. That was you fucked already before you entered that trade. If that was an exception, that was enough to tell you it couldn't last and you shouldn't engage. You went there like a fly on a light bulb

that's what so tricky with options, they have very volatile volume, you can't trust any of them. What was true one day, won't happen the next. It was your confirmation bias

 

[Baldur01]

C'mon, the trade desk was unavailable? I think that you're FOS.

All that you're doing is assuring that no legit broker will touch your taint.

What is FOS? When I tried to call them yesterday, I was waiting 30min in waiting line. Had to call multiple times until someone picked up. On 27th, I called multiple times and did not get through.

@destriero. No need to get insulting. I am simply asking for advice.