Compensation for traders at top firms?

Trading is a business as well as a profession, and should be looked at that way. With a small downside (and very limited) and an unlimited upside...much better "odds" than most franchises, donut shops, restaurants, etc. And, in my opinion, much less risky than working for somebody who will likely fire you (or worse yet, go out of business and take your retirement with them).

Only a very few percent of all people will cut it as traders, it's just the way it is in business. Again, it's not like paying $50-$100K to buy a franchise that may or may not work, or pay for $250K for additional schooling... ...trading is very unique and enjoyable.
 
Originally posted by mbs
an admission from daytrading firms that the lion's share of their earnings are from brokerage, not successful traders, would be a breath of fresh air. establishing a truthful baseline is elemental to comparing the relative merits of either side of the debate.
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I think they did admit that several times already. Problem is, traders don't want to understand that (obviously, look at the length of this thread).
a prop firm is in business to make money, not to sustain losing traders.
I think there are 3 reasons why traders are fascinated with this thread :
- the dream of being taught the holy grail from making money biz
- trade without risking a dime and leading to the next reason
- become rich

chances of this happening are limited.
trading is easy and difficult at the same time. but success really comes from inside. just read hitman's journal since the beginning. he was at prop firm and he had a very hard time for very long. now it is getting much easier for him but the journey was/is really rough.

nothing against prop firms, gs or jpm. I have a lot to say about pipe dreams though. the quick way to riches does not exist. it's either very hard work or very risky.
I changed my mind about prop firms though. I do think it's good way to learn what the real game is as opposed to what newbie trader think. My path was different and it was tough too. But people should look at reality, not dreams.

tntneo
 
it would be great for someone like myself with an interest in the prop firms mentioned in this post - to just have a list of them - and a short and unbiased summary of their business models

i believe that anyone who offers someone the chance to make money is doing that person a favour, but if the person is successful or unsuccesful, it is the person's skill or fault

i also believe that if you enter into a relationship, that does not work out, for any reason, you are 50% to blame.

so it would be great if anyone who can offer an unbiased summary, that it does not include any "bad blood", as that is possible to get from other messages on here!
 
Originally posted by Don Bright
Trading is a business as well as a profession, and should be looked at that way. With a small downside (and very limited) and an unlimited upside...much better "odds" than most franchises, donut shops, restaurants, etc. And, in my opinion, much less risky than working for somebody who will likely fire you (or worse yet, go out of business and take your retirement with them).

Only a very few percent of all people will cut it as traders, it's just the way it is in business. Again, it's not like paying $50-$100K to buy a franchise that may or may not work, or pay for $250K for additional schooling... ...trading is very unique and enjoyable.
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don, apart from that about the working for somebody who will likely fire you, i do agree with the rest, and also RE the franchise stuff.

cheers
 
Originally posted by tntneo



nothing against prop firms, gs or jpm. I have a lot to say about pipe dreams though. the quick way to riches does not exist. it's either very hard work or very risky.

tntneo
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good point, sometimes the obvious really does get lost when wishful thinking takes over, or is sometimes helped along when false illusions are created as in, eg, franchising etc, but even then it always takes two to tango.
 
Originally posted by tntneo


I think there are 3 reasons why traders are fascinated with this thread :
- the dream of being taught the holy grail from making money biz
- trade without risking a dime and leading to the next reason
- become rich

tntneo
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I think those 3 reasons are why traders/wannabees are facinated with this website!


Axe
 
i must have missed the straight-forward, 'we make our money from brokerage, not traders' line amid the continual, again unsupported, claims of those who appear to be daytrading firm managers.

there's nothing wrong with making money from brokerage but it is disingenuous at best to hint/suggest the business model is actually the training of successful traders...or that anyone can be trained to make money daytrading.

i am not suggesting in any way that firms keep unprofitable traders onboard...

i believe there is a legitimate case to be made for daytrading as a viable career but some of the questions posted here seem to invite firm managers feeding a bunch of nonsense to novices and suggesting that a career at a wall street firm is, shall we say, less than honorable, profitable.

i don't understand the defensive tone of daytraders..they should be proud of making a living in a difficult environment...i do however understand the defensive tone from those that appear to run these firms.

mbs
 
How far we've wandered. This was a simple topic. So far, I've seen a salary survey from 2000, some recruiter's numbers and a really old Ibanking survey from 1999. Some people have said that they are ex-wall street traders or managers. Let's hear the numbers then.
 
Originally posted by liltrdr
How far we've wandered. This was a simple topic. So far, I've seen a salary survey from 2000, some recruiter's numbers and a really old Ibanking survey from 1999. Some people have said that they are ex-wall street traders or managers. Let's hear the numbers then......



agreed....

straight equity trading jobs are fewer these days..most now include derviatives or are mostly derivatives (equity swaps/options)....
all packages are different but the base (after training) is 100 to 150k generally and a percentage of desk profits...lots of firms have gone from individual profits to desk profits with the switch to sales traders from straight prop trading (prop guys make markets for corp sales guys within the firm) and with the addition of quants to the desk.

hedge funds pay average 120kish for experienced traders/analysts and are sometimes given a % of their profits or participate in the fund cut (generally 20% of profits).

firms known for having very profitable equity trading businesses have very little turnover on the desk and usually expand by grabbing profitable traders from other firms/funds. trainees on the desk usually make anywhere from 40k to 80k, doing p&ls, running models...sometimes they become traders, loads leave due to abusive treatment (frankly).
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