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sambatrade · Apr 20, 2003

Quote from speedy:

I disagree with this - in most cases. This is why:

Dealing direct with only 2 mil shares a month brings no leverage. Going through a group who does 20-100 mil shares a month can surely help since they will have a lot more leverage even if you pay the middleman a few bucks a month.

And believe me is you ever have any problems (and you will), you will want the leverage to have the problem resolved. By yourself, you will be ignored when you need help the most.

that's a myth kept going by prop groups. any cost savings they will just keep for themselves and you will not do any better than if you dealt direct. i've always been on my own and several other traders i know of (large and small) and we've never had problems that couldnt be reasonable resolved. this 'leverage' you talk about is another myth. if you're a small trader in an LLC/prop group you're still going to have no leverage. Bottom line, the amount you save by dealing direct and cutting out middlemen far outweighs any advantage you THINK you might obtain going under any group.
by the way, in the current environment, if you do 2 million shares a month you definately have decent leverage!

speedy · Apr 20, 2003

Quote from sambatrade:

that's a myth kept going by prop groups. any cost savings they will just keep for themselves and you will not do any better than if you dealt direct. i've always been on my own and several other traders i know of (large and small) and we've never had problems that couldnt be reasonable resolved. this 'leverage' you talk about is another myth. if you're a small trader in an LLC/prop group you're still going to have no leverage. Bottom line, the amount you save by dealing direct and cutting out middlemen far outweighs any advantage you THINK you might obtain going under any group.
by the way, in the current environment, if you do 2 million shares a month you definately have decent leverage!

Come on...its not a myth. Its common sense. A group doing 50 mil shares a month will have a much favorable deal....I know

And I'm not a prop group...

Dealing direct always will get you more runarounds Unless you are doing more than 2 mil shares a month.

sambatrade · Apr 20, 2003

Quote from speedy:

Come on...its not a myth. Its common sense. A group doing 50 mil shares a month will have a much favorable deal....I know

And I'm not a prop group...

Dealing direct always will get you more runarounds Unless you are doing more than 2 mil shares a month.

Come on, use your common sense. yes the heads of the group will get a better rate, but unless you're one of the heads, you're not likely to see any of that savings. I know a lot of groups and their pricing behaviours and I've rarely seen them give out fair prices. you'll get more runarounds, sales talk and bullshit dealing with a middleman! think about it, you're DEALING WITH A MIDDLEMAN!!! why dont you call lynx (or any other group, this is just the one i'm thinking off the top of my head, but you can substitute any other) tell them you do 2mm and see what bullshit rate you get. then call andover directly and I'll guarantee you can get a better rate (in a decent office with good support) !!!

speedy · Apr 20, 2003

Quote from sambatrade:

Come on, use your common sense. yes the heads of the group will get a better rate, but unless you're one of the heads, you're not likely to see any of that savings. I know a lot of groups and their pricing behaviours and I've rarely seen them give out fair prices. you'll get more runarounds, sales talk and bullshit dealing with a middleman! think about it, you're DEALING WITH A MIDDLEMAN!!! why dont you call lynx (or any other group, this is just the one i'm thinking off the top of my head, but you can substitute any other) tell them you do 2mm and see what bullshit rate you get. then call andover directly and I'll guarantee you can get a better rate (in a decent office with good support) !!!

oh I get it now...you're with one of the mysterious subs of andover.... true, andover is the cheapest but you get what you pay for.

cornholetrading · Apr 21, 2003

Quote from speedy:

oh I get it now...you're with one of the mysterious subs of andover.... true, andover is the cheapest but you get what you pay for.

Yea those low rates with news service, bloomberg, squak box, tech support, and fast execution really suck. I guess the other choice in my area would be to go to an office with no news, no tech, unreliable system, and the privledge to pay higher rates. I think I will be a cheap ass and stay where I am at.

fattyasids · Apr 21, 2003

Quote from cornholetrading:

Yea those low rates with news service, bloomberg, squak box, tech support, and fast execution really suck. I guess the other choice in my area would be to go to an office with no news, no tech, unreliable system, and the privledge to pay higher rates. I think I will be a cheap ass and stay where I am at.

What office doesn't have all that? I'm assuming that you are talking about professional offices. Why would you assume that you are the only one with that?

TM_Direct · Apr 21, 2003

Quote from dmtrader:

Maybe you should quit being a trader. If you can't make it paying .006 you are not cut out for this type of work. Any trader that needs to reduce commissions to make money probably can't trade in the first place. It seems that you are trying to prolong your agony. Admit defeat and move on and stop complaining about $1 a 1000 shares you could be saving because it will not help you.

amen.....

cornholetrading · Apr 21, 2003

Quote from fattyasids:

What office doesn't have all that? I'm assuming that you are talking about professional offices. Why would you assume that you are the only one with that?

There are 4 offices near me that are considered "professional" offices and some offer "professional" leverage yet they don't have these basic items. No tech to cut back on costs, no news service (they assume a squak box is good enough, and will alert you to big news items), and their network/software is very questionable. So I am not assuming other firms and offices do not have these items, but I know in my area it is not common place.

gimp570 · Apr 21, 2003

Quote from dmtrader:

Maybe you should quit being a trader. If you can't make it paying .006 you are not cut out for this type of work. Any trader that needs to reduce commissions to make money probably can't trade in the first place. It seems that you are trying to prolong your agony. Admit defeat and move on and stop complaining about $1 a 1000 shares you could be saving because it will not help you.

Thanks for the great advice...that makes a lot of sense

M

fattyasids · Apr 21, 2003

Quote from cornholetrading:

There are 4 offices near me that are considered "professional" offices and some offer "professional" leverage yet they don't have these basic items. No tech to cut back on costs, no news service (they assume a squak box is good enough, and will alert you to big news items), and their network/software is very questionable. So I am not assuming other firms and offices do not have these items, but I know in my area it is not common place.

That's what I meant....if you don't have them, I wouldn't consider them "professional". If you don't have that, you should just trade from home....no advantage. My comments were directed at "professional" firms ONLY.