Comparing prop firms with Dell and Gateway makes for a poor comparison. When you buy a computer from them, your only risk (and it is a very small risk from this big, public companies) is that your warantee won't last if the company goes under. On the other hand, you are risking, among other things, the capital you contribute and the capital you accumulate (whether that is an additional agreed upon cap, or whether it is just what is in the account up till payday).
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commission rates for volume trader
- Thread starter NYSEscalpa
- Start date
Quote from atlastrading:
Rates should be no less than .005 for any traders. The
Who do you think has the capital for you to trade 100X. It doesn't just appear. I comes from someone looking to make a return. At rates lower than .005 they are not making a return good enough to justify the risks.
I wouldn't worry about rates, I would worry about your capital and your trading skills. A good trader looks to make 200K+ in a year. What is a few 1000 bucks to be at a bad firm.
You always end up getting what you pay for.
Hope that helps....
The trader said he trades over 200 miilion shares a year. If my maths is right
.001 per share discount equates to over $20,000 . That covers a few overheads. If he gets an even better deal - and he can - then the savings would double.
Quote from roberk:
The trader said he trades over 200 miilion shares a year. If my maths is right
.001 per share discount equates to over $20,000 . That covers a few overheads. If he gets an even better deal - and he can - then the savings would double.
No, your math is wrong!!! I hope you calculate things better when you trade.
0.001 per share @ 200 million = 200,000. That's what someone is claiming to be a goal for a trader. So if you trade 833k shares a day and pay 0.005 currently and are loosing 200,000 per year, for example, if you switch to 0.001 commission (those rates exist) you save appx 800,000k a year which means you go from NEGATIVE 200K a year to positive 500K a year!!!!!
If you trade not 833k per day but 10 times less: 80k per day then, and are loosing 20k per year, then, well divide by 10. Instead of loosing 20k you could be making 50k.
Now to reply to the rest.
Firms that are self clearing: they have to file focus reports every month. They got enough regulators watching their ass then you worry about your 5k that you put in.
Dell is not a piece of shit. It's a very good computer - most business use Dell. The only way IBM and HP survives is old brand name recognition and really good salesmen.
Wal-Mart - their products is NOT pieces shit. They may not come from fifth ave, but for middle America and they are decent. If you want to buy a shakespear fishing rod, go to Modell's pay 40 for it, or 25 in Wal-Mart.
0.005 IS LION's share, when margins are over 500%!!!!!
Oops, I should have said he is doing over 20 miilion shares a year not 200 million. that makes my original figure of $20,000 (minimum) savings about right (I hope).Quote from AnonymousTrader:
No, your math is wrong!!! I hope you calculate things better when you trade.
0.001 per share @ 200 million = 200,000. That's what someone is claiming to be a goal for a trader. So if you trade 833k shares a day and pay 0.005 currently and are loosing 200,000 per year, for example, if you switch to 0.001 commission (those rates exist) you save appx 800,000k a year which means you go from NEGATIVE 200K a year to positive 500K a year!!!!!
If you trade not 833k per day but 10 times less: 80k per day then, and are loosing 20k per year, then, well divide by 10. Instead of loosing 20k you could be making 50k.
Now to0.005 IS LION's share, when margins are over 500%!!!!!
Anyway it is obviously pretty important to get good commissions.
anonymous has missed the point completely. the dell walmart comparison is way off. dell does not take the risk that a trading firm does. of course if a trader trades 200 millions shares a year he can save 200k with a .001 rate reduction. However, to trade 200 million shares a year, you need capital PAL.
Who is giving you this capital, the tooth fairy. Also, for someone who trades that kind of volume the risk is ENORMOUS.
I have seen traders loss 500k in one day.
Dell has small margins, but they don't have to worry about a custormer of theirs losing 500K.
Does that make sense now.
Who is giving you this capital, the tooth fairy. Also, for someone who trades that kind of volume the risk is ENORMOUS.
I have seen traders loss 500k in one day.
Dell has small margins, but they don't have to worry about a custormer of theirs losing 500K.
Does that make sense now.
'Quote from NYSEscalpa:
I trade about 2-3 million shares/ month or about 100-150K shares/ day on average. In a volatile market, I trade around 4 million shares/ month. I am profitable and have about 15K to put in my account (more money is tied up in real estate....) Anyways, I just wanted to see what the best commission rate that I could get right now? I would require at LEAST 100x leverage, as I put out multiple orders as part of one of my strategies and I don't want any margin issues on the open orders. I take very little risk and am very quick to cut losses, so the issue of "oh, this guy wants all this BP with only 15K down, what if he blows up??" is irrelevant. Believe me, I hate losses but I always have the discipline to cut a position when it costing me money. Also, my trades are primarily very short term and I seldom carry overnights.
So, what is everyone else getting with this kind of volume?? If you are a firm and want to make an offer, please do so by PM. Thanks for the input and good trading to all.
NYSEscalpa
Well, heck...I think you should trade for free, use all the other traders money whenever you want it, move into one of my houses, and perhaps pick out a new Lexus for yourself....how's that?
Try to be serious about this...Would you give low pricing to someone who is risking your money? Would a firm's other traders, who have made money and are willing to at least come up with PDT money, want you to risk their money by giving some guy 1.5 million with a mere $15K at risk?
Perhaps show the firm your "real estate holdings" and they could advance you another $100K or so...and then you could be in a position to negotiate the "lowest rates"....
Firm's have a sliding scale based on (not just) volume, but risk, solvency of the trader, trading history, etc.
We do our best to come up with a matrix that makes sense by speaking directly with the trader, looking at tax returns and balance sheets, and getting a "feel' for the long term relationship with this person.....
We can offer the best deals when everything is considered...and if you're speaking of saving $50K per year, then a short plane trip to discuss these things in person certainly makes sense.
No one is really expecting to get a serious price on this board, blindly...I doubt that even the secondary type firms will do that.
(I sort of mixed my smile with some serious stuff above, dont' take anything the wrong way)..
Don
I would NOT want to do business with any operation that did business with any idiot using more than 10-1 leverage much less 100 to 1!
Also, if you're "successful" since you claim to be doing 2-3 mil shares a month, what's wrong with putting up 100K-200K to trade?
As for your "real estate", yeah, a bunch of dog houses on some farm, probably.
You're full of shit.
Also, if you're "successful" since you claim to be doing 2-3 mil shares a month, what's wrong with putting up 100K-200K to trade?
As for your "real estate", yeah, a bunch of dog houses on some farm, probably.
You're full of shit.
Quote from NYSEscalpa:
I trade about 2-3 million shares/ month or about 100-150K shares/ day on average. In a volatile market, I trade around 4 million shares/ month. I am profitable and have about 15K to put in my account (more money is tied up in real estate....) Anyways, I just wanted to see what the best commission rate that I could get right now? I would require at LEAST 100x leverage, as I put out multiple orders as part of one of my strategies and I don't want any margin issues on the open orders. I take very little risk and am very quick to cut losses, so the issue of "oh, this guy wants all this BP with only 15K down, what if he blows up??" is irrelevant. Believe me, I hate losses but I always have the discipline to cut a position when it costing me money. Also, my trades are primarily very short term and I seldom carry overnights.
So, what is everyone else getting with this kind of volume?? If you are a firm and want to make an offer, please do so by PM. Thanks for the input and good trading to all.
NYSEscalpa
Quote from AnonymousTrader:
Dell is not a piece of shit. It's a very good computer - most business use Dell. The only way IBM and HP survives is old brand name recognition and really good salesmen.
Dell is a piece of crap, I have used Dells at an I-bank, at my current prop firm and friend's homes. Gateway and Dell are the low end of all PCs, they are pure shit. You can build a PC 25%-50% better for the same money that Dell will charge you. Dell saves a ton by using the lowest end Motherboards there are, lowest quality RAM & DRAM, lowest end soundcards & lowest end speakers. If most businesses use Dell, it is because everybody is on a cost saving spree and Dell knows that. Besides, most business do not even need powerful computers, they can do fine with 5 year old ones, let alone new Dells.
I do not think much of HP. IBM is aight. I am very happy with my Sony Vaio, but the BEST PCs are built by small PC shops or by the consumers themselves. I actually looked at some of the top DELL PCs and compared to the PC I wanted to put together myself. Dell would have overcharged me about 1000 dollars and I still would not get exactly what I was looking for.
Quote from Mecro:
Dell is a piece of crap, I have used Dells at an I-bank, at my current prop firm and friend's homes. Gateway and Dell are the low end of all PCs, they are pure shit. You can build a PC 25%-50% better for the same money that Dell will charge you. Dell saves a ton by using the lowest end Motherboards there are, lowest quality RAM & DRAM, lowest end soundcards & lowest end speakers. If most businesses use Dell, it is because everybody is on a cost saving spree and Dell knows that. Besides, most business do not even need powerful computers, they can do fine with 5 year old ones, let alone new Dells.
I do not think much of HP. IBM is aight. I am very happy with my Sony Vaio, but the BEST PCs are built by small PC shops or by the consumers themselves. I actually looked at some of the top DELL PCs and compared to the PC I wanted to put together myself. Dell would have overcharged me about 1000 dollars and I still would not get exactly what I was looking for.
lool I have been in the business of building PCs from parts found on pricewatch - and what you have just said was my sales spiel....
But, after having doing this, I own 4 dells. Get out of the selling put-together PCs business.