Coming to terms with my feelings. Long, sorry.

[Sprout]

You have no right to an opinion on USA history, if you cannot get a REAL I.D. It is really quite simple. Get your birth certificate that shows you are a USA citizen, or have been nationalized. You are complaining about the "costs" of obtaining said documents.

How much money did you spend on booze and cigarettes this week? That is such a lame cop-out.

If you cannot get a real ID, you are not a citizen of the USA.

One thing about you, is that you are quite consistent,…


Quite consistent at being an idiot.

 

[Cuddles]

California doesn't require an ID. You can show up at a voting booth, glance at the names in a list and tell them that's you, and vote. I think one should have to show a proof of identity, be it a military ID, a driver's license, a passport... Whatever official gov form of ID

California's voter registration asks you identify w/numbers unique to your person (on registration), numbers linked to your eligibility. Yes the SS agency knows who they're issuing SS#'s to and yes most states when issuing ID's will establish citizenship to issue the correct IDs.

California does not require voters to present photo identification. However, some voters may be asked to show a form of identification when voting if they are voting for the first time after registering to vote by mail and did not provide a driver license number, California identification number, or the last four digits of their social security number.[1][2]

The following list of accepted ID was current as of August 2022. Click here for the California Secretary of State page on accepted ID to ensure you have the most current information.

• Copy of a recent utility bill
• Sample ballot booklet sent from the county elections office to the voter
• Document sent to the voter by a government agency
• Passport
• Driver’s license
• Official state identification card
• Student identification that includes name and photograph

 

[Tsing Tao]

Thank you for the reference, this is new information for me and I can update my mental model about ID access.

However you are painting with a broad brush of whether someone "cares" or not.

Here's a typical example of someone who suddenly has no access to ID;

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/resear.../without-id-homeless-trapped-in-vicious-cycle

The person in this article doesn't complain anywhere about not being able to vote. Instead, he says: “It was pretty hard,” Giddings, now 58, said. “You can’t go to the doctor. I couldn’t cash any checks. I couldn’t apply for food stamps.” So yeah, where are all the liberals up in arms because he can't go to the doctor or apply for food stamps?

If you are saying I'm painting a broad brush of whether someone cares about being able to vote, show me some. Show me some people actually saying they are being disenfranchised from voting because they can't get an ID. Most people who want to vote, can get an ID if they want. You'll see plenty of media articles claiming it is widespread, but it isn't. Instead, people like Giddings in your article care about getting basic care - that IS a problem. Voting isn't in the top 10 for people like Giddings.

I can't speak for all states but for mine; yes, in the process one has to provide photo ID prior to getting a Voter registration card. These are connected to a residential address which then a ballot is mailed to you with a deadline for return. The returned ballot then has to match a signature that is on file.

Ah. "Signature matching". I'm sure that's a wonderful idea, but the ability to match signatures is lunacy. People in my office can't even match my signature of check signing. And they're really motivated to do so. Voting authorities couldn't care less for the most part.

Hard to imagine how such a system can be gamed on a widespread level. At some point, I imagine we as individuals could actually verify that our vote was correctly counted.

Oh yeah? What about someone going to a nursing home to collect all the ballots mailed for the elderly and filling them all out, getting some signatures from the elderly and sending them all in? Apartment buildings? By the time the real people complain (if they ever do) that they've not received a ballot, its over and done with.

We are in agreement that having greater integrity in our elections is of mutual benefit. Your prior assertions of ID requirements for other services are noted and quite reasonable.

Thank you.

The Princeton link was informative, thank you.

From the Vox link;
"Basically, Democrats saved themselves by resorting to a tactic they’ve previously denounced as not only unfair but downright unethical — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called gerrymandering “unjust and deeply dangerous” in 2019. But in the absence of national reforms banning the practice, refusing to gerrymander would have meant effective unilateral disarmament, ceding the GOP a significant advantage in the battle for control over the House."

Your supplied references led me to ask "when did gerrymandering start?"

I'm not sure when it started. But both parties do it regularly. And that's the point.

 

[Tsing Tao]

They were fucking traitors who attacked the U.S. government and killed U.S. troops...
Most of the statutues were put up by white racists to remind the Blacks who controlled Jim Crow laws...

My God U.S. history classes must have sucked when some of you were in school....

Again (I have to say this over and over again because either people don't want to hear it or don't have an answer) the original colonists were "fucking traitors" to England as well. But you're OK with that revolution.

 

[VicBee]

Again (I have to say this over and over again because either people don't want to hear it or don't have an answer) the original colonists were "fucking traitors" to England as well. But you're OK with that revolution.

Yes, and what's your point? Americans are ok with that revolution because that's how America came to be. The secessionists attempted to break from America to preserve their right to own slave and save their cotton industry. So yes, they were traitors who attacked the US government and killed US troops. What is so hard there for you to understand?

No country in the world puts secessionists on pedestals, unless the secession led to independence and creation of a new country. But this isn't the case in the US. If anything, any remnants of the secession should have been eradicated and the whole affair left for textbooks to mention as America's darkness hour.

 

[Sprout]

The person in this article doesn't complain anywhere about not being able to vote. Instead, he says: “It was pretty hard,” Giddings, now 58, said. “You can’t go to the doctor. I couldn’t cash any checks. I couldn’t apply for food stamps.” So yeah, where are all the liberals up in arms because he can't go to the doctor or apply for food stamps?

If you are saying I'm painting a broad brush of whether someone cares about being able to vote, show me some. Show me some people actually saying they are being disenfranchised from voting because they can't get an ID. Most people who want to vote, can get an ID if they want. You'll see plenty of media articles claiming it is widespread, but it isn't. Instead, people like Giddings in your article care about getting basic care - that IS a problem. Voting isn't in the top 10 for people like Giddings.



Ah. "Signature matching". I'm sure that's a wonderful idea, but the ability to match signatures is lunacy. People in my office can't even match my signature of check signing. And they're really motivated to do so. Voting authorities couldn't care less for the most part.



Oh yeah? What about someone going to a nursing home to collect all the ballots mailed for the elderly and filling them all out, getting some signatures from the elderly and sending them all in? Apartment buildings? By the time the real people complain (if they ever do) that they've not received a ballot, its over and done with.



Thank you.




I'm not sure when it started. But both parties do it regularly. And that's the point.

Yeah, I’m gonna bow out, seems like you are triggered and further rational discussion is no longer possible.