Coming to terms with my feelings. Long, sorry.

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Great article that touches on some of the points Tsing made regarding his children.

DAVID MAMET TELLS LIBERAL JEWS TO WAKE UP

In a harsh challenge to liberal Jews voting for Barack Obama, Oscar-nominated, Tony Award winning playwright David Mamet, formerly a strident liberal but now a card-carrying conservative, penned a column in the Los Angeles Jewish Journal with a series of questions for them:

Are you prepared to explain to your children not the principles upon which your vote is cast, but its probable effects upon them?
Irrespective of your endorsement of liberal sentiments, of fairness and “more equal distribution,” will you explain to your children that top-down economic policies will increasingly limit their ability to find challenging and well-paid work, and that the diminution in employment and income will decrease their opportunity to marry and raise children?

Will you explain (as you have observed) that a large part of their incomes will be used to fund programs that they may find immoral, wasteful and/or indeed absurd? And that the bulk of their taxes go to no programs at all, but merely service the debt you entailed on them?

Will you tell your children that a liberal government will increasingly marginalize, dismiss and weaken the support for and the safety of the Jewish state?

Will you tell them that, in a state-run economy, hard work may still be applauded, but that it will no longer be rewarded?

Will you explain that whatever their personal beliefs, tax-funded institutions will require them to imbibe and repeat the slogans of the left, and that, should they differ, they cannot have a career in education, medicine or television unless they keep their mouths shut?

Will you explain to them that it is impossible to make a budget, and that the basic arithmetic we all use at the kitchen table is not practiced at the federal and state level, and to suggest that it should be is “selfishness?”

Most importantly, will you teach them never to question the pronouncements of those in power, for to do so is to risk ostracism?

Are you prepared to sit your children down and talk them through your vote on the future you are choosing for them?

This is a great article. Unfortunately it will fall upon deaf ears. Most of the people in this country that are so polarized at this juncture will not listen to anything outside their normal state of belief. There's no self responsibility out there, no owning up to a mistake, and most importantly, no seeking of wisdom outside what we already believe.

One of the things that I pride myself on is that I am, or rather was, open to viewpoints not my own in the past. I know many on the left who I have argued with repeatedly here will laugh at this. But I used to be on that side until I started looking into it more and more. I was a supporter of Obama once upon a time. I voted for him. You've all heard me state this over and over again, but it bears repeating. It wasn't until I begin to really look into the fiscal sustainability of the country when one thing led to another, and another, and I started realizing that where I was going was more and more libertarian. But it took the sacrifice of my ego in order to do it. Without giving up ego, you will never open yourself up to the possibility you could be wrong.

People are like that. It's always someone else who is wrong - always someone else out of their mind. I used to want to see someone's view (unless I had heard it before) before resolving my self to oppose it. That's how I became socially liberal in the first place, and it wasn't all that long ago.
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:

Without giving up ego, you will never open yourself up to the possibility you could be wrong.

Just as another point, I study aiki-jutjitsu, and the art of the samurai. I've been taking martial arts for a long time, but only have been in this deep of a study for the last 18 months. An interesting aspect of the art is "Resheiki", or etiquette. The samurai practiced Resheiki in such a focused manner that it consumed their whole life. Part of this study included the displacement of the ego entirely. It was considered impossible to learn while ego was intact. If your ego could rule your decisions, you could never be open to truly learning something, as learning it first required you to submit that you did not know something.

It's very similar here.
 
Quote from Max E. Pad:

Great article that touches on some of the points Tsing made regarding his children.

DAVID MAMET TELLS LIBERAL JEWS TO WAKE UP

In a harsh challenge to liberal Jews voting for Barack Obama, Oscar-nominated, Tony Award winning playwright David Mamet, formerly a strident liberal but now a card-carrying conservative, penned a column in the Los Angeles Jewish Journal with a series of questions for them:

Are you prepared to explain to your children not the principles upon which your vote is cast, but its probable effects upon them?
Irrespective of your endorsement of liberal sentiments, of fairness and “more equal distribution,” will you explain to your children that top-down economic policies will increasingly limit their ability to find challenging and well-paid work, and that the diminution in employment and income will decrease their opportunity to marry and raise children?

Will you explain (as you have observed) that a large part of their incomes will be used to fund programs that they may find immoral, wasteful and/or indeed absurd? And that the bulk of their taxes go to no programs at all, but merely service the debt you entailed on them?

Will you tell your children that a liberal government will increasingly marginalize, dismiss and weaken the support for and the safety of the Jewish state?

Will you tell them that, in a state-run economy, hard work may still be applauded, but that it will no longer be rewarded?

Will you explain that whatever their personal beliefs, tax-funded institutions will require them to imbibe and repeat the slogans of the left, and that, should they differ, they cannot have a career in education, medicine or television unless they keep their mouths shut?

Will you explain to them that it is impossible to make a budget, and that the basic arithmetic we all use at the kitchen table is not practiced at the federal and state level, and to suggest that it should be is “selfishness?”

Most importantly, will you teach them never to question the pronouncements of those in power, for to do so is to risk ostracism?

Are you prepared to sit your children down and talk them through your vote on the future you are choosing for them?

WOW!!!!!!! Thanks for posting that!

I'm tempted to send that to a Family member who is responsible for organizing the yearly reunion. They will want to know why I'm not coming? "Well, my own blood voted for obama, and here's what I would be talking about IF I show up."
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:

This is a great article. Unfortunately it will fall upon deaf ears. Most of the people in this country that are so polarized at this juncture will not listen to anything outside their normal state of belief. There's no self responsibility out there, no owning up to a mistake, and most importantly, no seeking of wisdom outside what we already believe.

One of the things that I pride myself on is that I am, or rather was, open to viewpoints not my own in the past. I know many on the left who I have argued with repeatedly here will laugh at this. But I used to be on that side until I started looking into it more and more. I was a supporter of Obama once upon a time. I voted for him. You've all heard me state this over and over again, but it bears repeating. It wasn't until I begin to really look into the fiscal sustainability of the country when one thing led to another, and another, and I started realizing that where I was going was more and more libertarian. But it took the sacrifice of my ego in order to do it. Without giving up ego, you will never open yourself up to the possibility you could be wrong.

People are like that. It's always someone else who is wrong - always someone else out of their mind. I used to want to see someone's view (unless I had heard it before) before resolving my self to oppose it. That's how I became socially liberal in the first place, and it wasn't all that long ago.

a natural evolution for a reasonable person. there are dummies right and left, but at the end of the day people like us weigh other's best thinking against what we conclude.

the veil that conceals the left is not that thick, all it takes is an open mind to see it
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:

You are wasting your time. People won't change until they are forced to. Your best stance at this point would be to prepare for the time when they are forced to, and put as much separation between them and you as possible. This time will be here sooner than almost everyone expects.

If I was young like you I'd be really concerned. I'll probably be dead by the time this happens, if it does indeed happen. If it comes sooner, I'm too old to put up a good fight, so I'll go quick, and that's OK, I've lived a good life for the most part. I have no children, so that is not an issue for me. For now I choose to try and talk some peaceful solution and if that doesn't work, fuck it. I'll gun a few down in the intial riot, be taken out quickly, and on to whatever comes next, if anything comes next at all. I am certainly not resigned to that violent outcome, and will try and prevent it, but it is what it is.
 
Quote from Max E. Pad:

Peter Schiff hits the nail on the head for Why Obama won, great video!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dz7boAzeV7s?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Other country to America: "How do you run your Country. Well, we let the idiots decide."

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I owe you one for this clip!!!! Thanks!
 
Quote from LEAPup:

Agreed.

And I also believe the layoffs are eminent. That nuke he dropped on America called Obama care will absolutely wipe out companies, and by 2016, I can't imagine what this Country will look like.:mad:

Wasn't that what Romney did, laying off people, sending American jobs to China? Now I see where you guys sit on America. Prefer it to fail than have others with a choice, or others win an election.

I've said it before, I prefer individuals be forced to pay, at least something for their healthcare, why should I? I prefer to keep healthcare out of salary negotiations, like most civilized countries. But, no, we did not get single-payer, but at least now, everyone can pay something towards their needs instead of clogging up emergency rooms. I'm tired of carrying all those who do that.
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:

Just as another point, I study aiki-jutjitsu, and the art of the samurai. I've been taking martial arts for a long time, but only have been in this deep of a study for the last 18 months. An interesting aspect of the art is "Resheiki", or etiquette. The samurai practiced Resheiki in such a focused manner that it consumed their whole life. Part of this study included the displacement of the ego entirely. It was considered impossible to learn while ego was intact. If your ego could rule your decisions, you could never be open to truly learning something, as learning it first required you to submit that you did not know something.

It's very similar here.

And yet, you feel, resentment.

That is an ego response, all day, every day.
 
Quote from Mav88:

a natural evolution for a reasonable person. there are dummies right and left, but at the end of the day people like us weigh other's best thinking against what we conclude.


Agree. I think that is what defined us as a nation at it's inception - the idea out there that their had to be another way.
 
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