"Colombia has become the Israel of Latin America"

Quote from Sparohok:

You think that the Ayatollah, Ahmadinejad, Hamas, Chavez, and the Taliban are the result of American NON-involvement?
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Absolutely. Carter dropped support for the shah of Iran so we got the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad, we "insisted" on Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and free and democratic elections and got Hamas, I don't think we had anything to do with Chavez and Taliban came to power in 1996 long after we left Afghanistan.

We did not attempt regime changes in all these cases, we did not install puppet regimes, we did not assassinate anyone, we did not stage coups. The results were as dismal as when we did, arguably worse.
 
Klassssssic.

Ignore what America did to keep the Shah puppet in power, then blame it on Carter...

Hmmm, let's see, what is Carter's position on Israel and Palestine?

LOL!

How bloody convenient of you to blame Carter's as the cause of the Iranian's revolution and rejection certain aspects of western culture and western protected puppet leaders...

Oh, and what has every president following Carter done to extricate ourselves from the geo-politics of the middle east and our dependency on their oil?

Blind support of Israel is non-involvement?

Too funny...

Quote from dddooo:

Absolutely. Carter dropped support for the shah of Iran so we got the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad, we "insisted" on Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and free and democratic elections and got Hamas, I don't think we had anything to do with Chavez and Taliban came to power in 1996 long after we left Afghanistan.

We did not attempt regime changes in all these cases, we did not install puppet regimes, we did not assassinate anyone, we did not stage coups. The results were as dismal as when we did, arguably worse.
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Quote from ratboy88:

go back further.
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Irrelevant. When they had a choice they chose the Ayatollah, when they had a choice they chose Ahmadinejad, when they had a choice they chose Chavez, when they had a choice they chose Hamas. They may not have chosen Taliban but when we're not involved the worst most despicable regimes tend to come to power which proves that when we are not interfering the results are hardly any better than when we are.
 
Quote from Sparohok:

Worst possible solution, one that certainly would not nip the problem in the bud. Do you think American influence, democracy and free market economics would blossom once we step in and take out Chavez? If anything, doing so would confirm all the worst that he says about us. We would prove him right.

The cold war is over and with it the last poor excuse for direct intervention in Latin American politics. Even at the time nobody pretended that the US and USSR were acting in Chile's best interests. Certainly the outcome with Pinochet supports my thesis and my policy better than it supports yours. Allende was no saint, but compared to Pinochet he certainly wasn't a cockroach either.

Martin
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So your solution really is to keep your fingers crossed.

Rather than take a position, you set up strawmen. I never said anything about directly intervening, ie invading, Venezuela. Chavez is already commiting acts of war against our ally Colombia by hosting a terrorist army, funding them and now protecting them. Colombia has adequate reason to attack him now, but I am not suggesting they go that far. But their choice is going to be fight or cede large portions of their country to Chavez's marxist proxies. We know which option the white flag liberals will back.

As for Chile, that is pretty much the litmus test for reality. You think Chile would have been better off if they turned communist, which was exactly what Allende was doing. I think Pinochet saved their country and their democracy.
 
Columbia, the worlds largest exporter of cocaine...and Afghanistan the worlds largest exporter of opium...

...and we need to protect their democracy?

Fascinating. We lost the war on drugs, and they seem to be winning it by selling their drugs illegally to America...

Ahhh, capitalism...

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

So your solution really is to keep your fingers crossed.

Rather than take a position, you set up strawmen. I never said anything about directly intervening, ie invading, Venezuela. Chavez is already commiting acts of war against our ally Colombia by hosting a terrorist army, funding them and now protecting them. Colombia has adequate reason to attack him now, but I am not suggesting they go that far. But their choice is going to be fight or cede large portions of their country to Chavez's marxist proxies. We know which option the white flag liberals will back.

As for Chile, that is pretty much the litmus test for reality. You think Chile would have been better off if they turned communist, which was exactly what Allende was doing. I think Pinochet saved their country and their democracy.
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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:
So your solution really is to keep your fingers crossed.
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Absolutely. What's yours? Your analogy with Chile implies direct US interference.

You think Chile would have been better off if they turned communist, which was exactly what Allende was doing. I think Pinochet saved their country and their democracy.
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Chile was saved in spite of Pinochet, not because of him.

Martin
 
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