Collusion Between Al-Journalism and Government Traitors

[Pabst]

He said it in his jail cell during an interview.......The quote offered above was part of a conversation Gilbert held with a dejected Hermann Goering in his cell on the evening of 18 April 1946, as the trials were halted for a three-day Easter recess

"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Quote from traderNik:

I have no idea about this, so I guess BloodTrader will provide the citation if it exists. I wonder what makes you say that he never said it - are you a Goering scholar?

I'll just say real quick - I wish I had copied the link, but someone recently commented on how Republicans have seem to have completely forgotten the values that used to define them as Republican. Wasn't one of them freedom of speech? I mean, set aside for a moment the NYT actions. What is it that Al Qaeda object to about our lifestyle? Hmmm... let's see. I guess that would be the right we grant our citizens to say and think what they want and to act as they want as long as it doesn't run them afoul of (secularly defined) laws. Does anyone believe, with this administration in charge, that if the NYT broke a law, they won't have the AG down their throats sooner rather than later?

It is fascinating to see the right in America abandoning the very values that the Muslim maniacs are attacking.

With the Dems now clueing in and starting a massive effort to show that they have something for Christians, the Republicans are doomed for the next election, at least as long as their entire platform is based on throwing shit against the walls in the hope that some of it sticks.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from Pabst:

You know better than that, Ricter. Who can't manipulate us? Women do, price action does, Madison Ave does, ect.

Government isn't some special, omnipotent, thought controlling device. And neither is the hot chick who'll stroke you for free drinks. It's our own hang-ups and pre-conceptions that haunt our intuition and judgement.....

Yeah, you're right. But in my defense I'll say that I'm naturally more skeptical about hot chicks that seem to like me, than I am about information coming from an entity that has the resources a government does. Hell, that information may be made to look like it's coming from somewhere else entirely.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from Pabst:

He said it in his jail cell during an interview

"All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

Okay, thanks for that clarification.

Speaking of Ann Coulter....

 

[Pabst]

Quote from Ricter:

Yeah, you're right. But in my defense I'll say that I'm naturally more skeptical about hot chicks that seem to like me, than I am about information coming from an entity that has the resources a government does. Hell, that information may be made to look like it's coming from somewhere else entirely.

 

[Sam123]

You think the Goering quote is relevant and applicable because you believe the only enemy we have is an illusion we created. I’m sure you also believe Bush did 9/11 to “rally the masses.” Talk about a sucker born every minute… Whole cultures are based on hysterical conspiracy theories. I guess you are one of them.

Furthermore, our government does not control media, unlike Nazi Germany. Our government is elected. Our media is not. So if you want to apply Goering’s quote correctly, it’s the media, not government, that creates the illusions and perpetuates the propaganda:

"Of course the people want to protect their national interests and defend their country. But after all, it's the propaganda from media that influences policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the makers of propaganda. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them there is no enemy and that we are creating unjust wars, and denounce those who try to defend the country as fascist war hawks, and exposing the country to greater danger."

In addition, When most journalists believe the same things and possess the same closed-minded prejudice (seething hatred of Bush, hatred U.S. foreign policy, etc.), I don’t see that being much different than a state-run media dishing out propaganda.

Freedom of Press demands a professional institution that educates free thinking professionals. Journalists don’t think freely. They don’t even know how to think freely. If they were truly educated about the “universe” in their universities, there would be a healthy distribution of thoughts, beliefs and ideas. As a result, the professional practice and ethics in Journalism would avoid the persistence of undermining our national interests in the face of our enemy just to get Bush.

Fortunately, it’s the freedom of Press, Speech, and public common sense that will eventually fix Journalism and why talk radio and Fox news have been legitimized mainly because both venues spend a lot of time pointing out the folly of Established Journalism.

Quote from BloodTrader:

Read this over and over again until it sinks into your thick head:
-------------

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

-----------------------

Damn right we need a hostile media, especially with an overreaching administration as we now have.

Or alternatively...go back to listening to the un-American ranting of the legions of right wing radio bozos who care about nothing but making a slimey buck.

A sucker is born every minute...you just happened to be coming along at the right time.

bt

 

[hapaboy]

Nik & Ricter,

I'm on the opposite side of some of your views, but I respect you both because I think you're both rational and are willing to look at other viewpoints before coming to a conclusion (even though I may disagree with that conclusion).

So let me ask you this: If we were fighting a war you thought was justified, would you still feel the same way if the NY Times was publishing articles about the government's efforts to track and capture the enemy?

Would you have approved of such articles being written during WW II, for example?

 

[Pabst]

Agreed, Sam. The media is not some benevolent watchdog. The media is a profit driven business that contains some of the biggest whores known to man.

I've yet to find any Leftist adequately assail Bernard Goldberg's book, Bias.

Quote from Sam123:

You think the Goering quote is relevant and applicable because you believe the only enemy we have is an illusion we created. I’m sure you also believe Bush did 9/11 to “rally the masses.” Talk about a sucker born every minute… Whole cultures are based on hysterical conspiracy theories. I guess you are one of them.

Furthermore, our government does not control media, unlike Nazi Germany. Our government is elected. Our media is not. So if you want to apply Goering’s quote correctly, it’s the media, not government, that creates the illusions and perpetuates the propaganda:

"Of course the people want to protect their national interests and defend their country. But after all, it's the propaganda from media that influences policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the makers of propaganda. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them there is no enemy and that we are creating unjust wars, and denounce those who try to defend the country as fascist war hawks, and exposing the country to greater danger."

In addition, When most journalists believe the same things and possess the same closed-minded prejudice (seething hatred of Bush, hatred U.S. foreign policy, etc.), I don’t see that being much different than a state-run media dishing out propaganda.

Freedom of Press demands a professional institution that educates free thinking professionals. Journalists don’t think freely. They don’t even know how to think freely. If they were truly educated about the “universe” in their universities, there would be a healthy distribution of thoughts, beliefs and ideas. As a result, the professional practice and ethics in Journalism would avoid the persistence of undermining our national interests in the face of our enemy just to get Bush.

Fortunately, it’s the freedom of Press, Speech, and public common sense that will eventually fix Journalism and why talk radio and Fox news have been legitimized mainly because both venues spend a lot of time pointing out the folly of Established Journalism.

 

[riserburn]

Quote from Sam123:

Talk about a sucker born every minute… Whole cultures are based on hysterical conspiracy theories. I guess you are one of them.

LOL; talk about hypocritical, look at the title of this thread. Collusion...LOL! Your rants about the "evil" media and how they seem to all be "out to get" Dubya, the government, and everyone's first born child smacks of conspiracy to me.

Did you even bother to read the article you posted? Or did you immediately start foaming at the mouth as more ammunition to post your rants about media bias presented itself?

If you actually read it (or any of the other 400+ articles about the subject), you would have noticed that it was an official Pentagon press release about an investigation that is being initiated due to the confessions of a soldier. I suppose the entire press corp "collusively" paid off that soldier to make up lies and then prodded the Pentagon to release a statement?

So if you want to apply Goering’s quote correctly, it’s the media, not government, that creates the illusions and perpetuates the propaganda:

LOL...the government doesn't perpetuate propaganda? May I interest you in some ocean front property in Nebraska?

In addition, When most journalists believe the same things and possess the same closed-minded prejudice (seething hatred of Bush, hatred U.S. foreign policy, etc.), I don’t see that being much different than a state-run media dishing out propaganda.

ROFL!!!! No clue? I can sell you one of those too.

Fortunately, it’s the freedom of Press, Speech, and public common sense that will eventually fix Journalism and why talk radio and Fox news have been legitimized mainly because both venues spend a lot of time pointing out the folly of Established Journalism.

It never occurred to you that talk radio and FOX also spreads propaganda in order to get you to tune in to them and turn off their competitors? It worked didn't it? Damn you're gullible.

 

[Dr. Zhivodka]

Wow....it never occurred to me that we've spent $320 billion (and counting) and lost many many lives, both American and Iraqi and squandered our respect in the world all because of newspapers.

Whaddya know.


Though I do seem to remember all those Judith Miller columns from the New York Times pumping the American people full of bullshit anytime the DoD needed a good story.

 

[Pekelo]

Quote from Pabst:

Herman Goering never uttered this statement at the Nuremberg trials.

............

The quote offered above was part of a conversation Gilbert held with a dejected Hermann Goering in his cell on the evening of 18 April 1946, as the trials were halted for a three-day Easter recess

So, correctly, Goering said it at the trials BREAK.

"In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

Except:

1. When there is a war without declaration, like Vietnam.

2. When the people don't agree with their elected representatives, nevertheless there is a war going on, like right now.