Colleges and universities are too expensive... why?
- Thread starter KCalhoun
- Start date
Baron
ET Founder
The whole university system is so screwed up it's beyond belief.
That's why Google recently introduced several certification courses and stated that if a user completes one of the courses (each taking only 3 - 6 months to finish) and then applies for a job at Google, the certification will be treated with as much weight as if it was a four-year degree.
That's why Google recently introduced several certification courses and stated that if a user completes one of the courses (each taking only 3 - 6 months to finish) and then applies for a job at Google, the certification will be treated with as much weight as if it was a four-year degree.
These certifications are terrifying for people working in tech on non-FAANG teams. It's the ultimate form of corporate cargo culting. Google technology is already taking over nearly every engineering team I've ever been a part of. There's no reason other than "Google uses it so it must be good".
These programs already exist (code camps) and are dubious in nature. I have no doubt Google's program will be just as dubious. Given the rapid pace of technological change favor is given to software engineers who can adapt rather than "experts in React/Angular/<hot technology>". These types of engineers are not found in code camps, and not necessarily the product of a 4 year degree.
Universities were never meant to be job programs. If they were I wouldn't have had to take theoretical computer science and literature classes. I learned how to think rather than "do a job", which unsurprisingly, has helped me succeed at my job when problems get more tough than cramming a round peg into a hole.
The answer is free money. It's no different than NINJA loans during the housing crisis. Load up the bottom of the barrel debtors with insane amounts of leverage, tell them to buy whatever they want, and asset prices rise accordingly. If you treat the cost of education as an asset then the situation is exactly the same with one extra caveat - you can't discharge student loans through bankruptcy.
Majority of University costs are in administration (as a result of free money). Ignoring cost and politics the University system is fine as the premier method of higher learning. You're not there to get a job. Rather, you are there to be taught how to think. The distinction there is critical.
Baron
ET Founder
It's interesting because I had the exact opposite experience when I was at Virginia Tech. I found the entire system to be one where a "good student" was rewarded for memorizing enough material to take a test and pass it with a decent grade. Over and over, I saw that same old pattern of cramming and memorizing enough information to pass a test was the primary goal of the vast majority of students.
The problem of course is that memory is not intelligence. Just because a student can shove enough material into their short-term memory to get an A or a B on a multiple-choice test is in no way indicative of intelligence.
I can set up a video camera in a room full of people and it will capture/memorize everything that happens over a period of time with precision but in no way would we say that the camcorder is intelligent, even though it memorized everything. But somehow along the way, the university system started rewarding students who could memorize the best instead of rewarding those who could problem-solve the best, which in my opinion, is the highest marker of an intelligent person.
It sounds like to me you were already a problem solver. You just need more stimulus to bring it out of you, and that's what university did for you. However, I must say that virtually all of the students I talk to view college as one big entrance exam to get a "good job", and the quality of that job is ultimately determined by the actual school you attended and your GPA from lots of short-term memorizing.
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You never specified what program you were in. That could also be a difference. After my initial induction classes a lot of genuine cleverness was required to pass. For example, you'd be given a thing to prove and you'd have to do it on the spot. I suppose if I think about it really hard that is what taught me to think. I'd imagine other degrees (in particular I've heard this from MBAs) there is significantly more memorization and regurgitation. I didn't have much of that experience but I can sympathize with the assessment.
That being said there was a significant amount of memorization and regurgitation in many of my classes. It was the higher level (near-graduation) classes that really tested your metal. I was never a good memorizer. I remembered formulas in math by understanding how they were derived. It was pointless to me to regurgitate, for example, the chain rule without truly understanding it's purpose. At that point it felt more like a "job" that you just accept and move on. I had terrible grades in high school mostly due to this. I went to a public school and the motivation was centered on getting marks to get funding (thank you No Child Left Behind) and to do that the most efficient way was to have as much crammed into your head as you can. I also did terrible on the SAT for the same reason.
This is precisely the problem I have with higher education right now. By virtue of every job requiring some higher end degree, Universities have become degree mills and job training programs. In my mind that was the purpose of community college. Community colleges are set up to act as job programs at least in my locale. There's nothing wrong with that either. I try to support the local community colleges when I can. The university experience should really be a period of broad exposure to several new ideas where after you've boiled everything down you're more capable of abstract thought. Unfortunately, as you pointed out, this isn't true at all.
Higher end jobs, management etc. put a emphasis on a degree. Universities understand the paradigm and have increased tuition costs cashing in on the racket. Even better, student loans are handed out like candy further feeding the academic monster.
Indentured servitude, hock your life to get a degree in a field where you’ll spend the next 10-15 years paying off your debt.
System’s broken.
I believe it is administrative growth that is driving most of the increases in college costs.
https://www.realcleareducation.com/...tive_costs_to_survive_this_crisis_110410.html
https://www.realcleareducation.com/...tive_costs_to_survive_this_crisis_110410.html
Yes, even I think that is one of the major reasons.
$465 a quarter in the early eighties.
Using official inflation figures that is about $5,600 a year in todays money.
Although i think official inflation rates underestimate true inflation.
House prices have gone 5x in that time and the Dow 30x in that time.
So Uni fees seem to have gone up inline with average house prices (5x) over that time.
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Nothing. There was a degree inflation. Nowadays even at a book store they want you to have a college degree and you are just a sales person, you need to know about books.
I would say about half of the students today at colleges has no business to be in college and they will never use their degree or the knowledge acquired.
The reasons could be:
1. Getting a student loan is very easy.
2. High school teachers are not permitted to advance the idea of trade schools. Trade schools are also looked down on.
3. Lots of kids not knowing what they want to do automatically go to college instead of a gap year. Then they end up studying basket waving and social studies.
4. Peer pressure. If all your friends are going to college, you probably go too, even if you are not that interested.
5. People don't treat education as an investment, although it is. As I said, probably half of them never get back their return on that investment.
Specially nowadays when lots of classes are available online, if one wants to get knowledge without the paper, it can be done easily.
Anyhow the budget way to get a fairly decent education is going community college for the first 2 years than transfer the credits to a state college. Your degree won't show the difference...
And don't even get me started on text books...