College Student Question
- Thread starter CollTrad
- Start date
I came out of college and got a job with ETG training in their Northbrook Illinois office. I put up no money and got theopportunity of a lifetime. The training was excellent. They didn't tell me what to do rather they let me try things and through trial and error and long discussions with Jeff using what was like a socratic method, I started catching on. So much so I made enough to leave after 4 years and become a direct customer of SLK. I still keep in touch with ETG. They have a training program out of Atlanta that they can run remotely. It is led by a guy who learned initially from Bob Kanter (like I did). He has updated Bob's theories for the new technological world of trading although the rules taught by Bob still apply. Contact them. It might be worth it. Otherwise you can listen to all the trash talk on this sight about who has better deals and is screwing whom, but those who know what they are doing are not complaining on this sight. They are doing it themselves making money.
I would recommend contacting the top tier firms and get a real job. Prop shops are for hacks that can't cut it in real trading.
I've been reading the posts of this thread and can probably attest to what you are going through right now. I will be graduating from an Ivy League Institution this May and will be working for Generic Trading in NY with no capital contribution. I like yourself had finance internships in banking and private client services but ultimately wanted to go into sales and trading. I interviewed this fall but didn't get any offers. What prompted my interest in Prop Trading was the presentation given by First NY Securities. I then went to interview with a few other prop shops in NY ultimately committing with Generic. My advice, go with what you want to be doing ten years from now. Go with what you are passionate about and you think will get you out of bed on a Monday morning fired up to go to work. I'm not certain what the future of prop trading holds for me but, i'm going to give it my best shot, and if it doesn't work out i'm going to try something else. I highly doubt if you were to try this out for a few years an employer would doubt your work ethic or drive to succceed in a different industry, but ten years down the road it may be different. If you would like to discuss this further please contact me or vice versa and I can discuss my personal expectations as well as my package and the whole program. Good luck.
Thats right. Cause institutional trading desks consist of true traders. Thats why I make tons of money by trading against them as a fake prop trader.
What a joke of a statement. I really did not know that ripping off your clients with "at the market" and "best possible price" is called real trading. Or using absurd mathetical models to make measly percentage points is real trading. Or using your institutions' financial leverage, technology and inter-global bank connections to grab currency arbitrage is called real trading. In my mind, real trading is buying and selling in a MARKET for a PROFIT.
CollTrad:
Unless you know someone or related to someone, expect to be an almost slave for one of the actual top tier firm traders for a couple of years. After that you just might get a chance to do something, if you do not get laid off that is. Well thats only if you actually get the job.
Lets' be serious, this safety job myth needs to be uncovered. There is zero job security anymore so get that out of your head. To make it in one of these top tier trading firms requires either having connection, serious ass kissing or a good amount of luck. Period. All this hard work and brains means absolute squat anymore. It's all about connections and even with connection you have to compete against others. Backstabbing, office politics and serious ass kissing is the name of the game nowdays.
Since you are Ivy, you have much better chances of getting into one of these firms than lets say someone who went to a good state school. Does not matter if you are a complete retard or a genius, your Ivy name gets you a foot in the door. So at the least, take a look at the "real" trading positions. It's different from prop mainly because you do not trade for yourself. You get salary, possible bonus, a bunch of asshole bosses, politics, name on a resume, benefits, stress, dress code, etc. It's a corporate world. Your potential is as high as you want, you can become CEO. But realistically, unless you know you got an ace up your sleeve, your potential is a higher paid corporate slave.
As a prop trader, you trade for yourself. The failure rate is about 90%. But your potential is not obstructed by anything or anyone. It's all up to you. No corporate bullshit, you rely on yourself and make your own decisions.
I graduated from a good school but not Ivy. I knew I wanted to do trading for one of the big firms but unfortunately, in 2002-2003, those jobs were near impossible to get for anyone not from Ivy. Even with an alumni contact at Lehman, the jobs were off limits to me.
I visited the trading floor at Lehman. At the time, I was impressed and really wanted to trade for one of the big firms. But nowdays, it's a bit laughable of how much a facade this "real" trading is. Give these guys a mil buying power and watch 90% of them blow out within weeks. They think the market is a mathematical model that is only accessible to Ivy leagues and MBAs.
I almost did IB. I had a good in since I was doing presentations work for one of the top IBs and got in good with the bankers. However, even though I knew I had more than it takes to make in IB, the absolute crap and bullshit required really undermined that potential. So I decided to put all the intelligence and work ethic into myself instead and became a prop trader. I do not do real trading as praetorian suggest, I just buy and sell stock, predict stock moves, calculate entries and exits, evaluate risk to reward, read the dumb and smart money moves, read the specialist and the tape, read the chart, etc. At the end of the day I take money out of the market into my pocket.
I can understand your concern. It is a legitimate one.
It is not easy to answer your questions b/c there are many prop firms and each one has different requirments, people, style, and training.
I would interview with as many prop firms as I can and ask many questions and take a look at the people there. Then, go with one that you think would be best suited for you. In another words, go with the one that you think would be compatible with your personality and your goals.
I would lean toward the prop firms that DON't require a capital contribution b/c I find them to be better in people and training.
Also, don't believe everything people say about prop trading. Instead, see and experience it for yourself.
Good luck.
or wanting to become a trader right away, but I also think if I were in your situation, I would try a few other things and do a little trading on the side (if you're not working for a financial-oriented firm, etc.) rather than go straight to a prop firm. Who knows, someday you might want to start a hedge fund and having the business contacts and experience may be a plus.
Just my opinion.
Just my opinion.