College grad w/ job offer and questions

My advice:

1.Get a written offer?

If in hand, is it "at will" employment or an employment contract? Does is spell out base and the commission structure and the time it is in effect? ... maybe even required performance and termination grounds?

2.Check references on the company.

Do you know or have you interviewed anyone who took a similar position at this firm? ... is the position open because someone left? or got fired? is so, who? can you talk to them to check a reference on the company? Research it. Pick up the phone and call people.

3.Quickly read the book "Bringing Down the House" ... and let me fill in the untold ending for you that MIT's best and brightest were exploited then betrayed by their mentor so he and his investors could continue their cycle with a new crop of fresh minds and keep their system rolling.

It is my opinion you are faced with a huge fork in the road right out of the gate. I agree with the previous posts that a BSEE in Computer with a trading record his first few years out of school is not that marketable in the current job market. It scares engineering management.

Good luck,
Headhunter
 
let me tell you this from experience. prop trading isn't worth much on your resume regardless what people say.

And I'm not sure how long this "salaried" prop job offer you have will last. It could be 6months or 1 year. Most prop firms are not that patient. If you consistently lose money or don't make jack for 6months then I don't think they will be so happy to keep you around on salary! They might keep you around if you are barely breaking even and they make money on overrides and commissions! That's the truth. That's how it is.

I was in the corporate world for a while working at some of the best companies in my field. Then one day I decided to give up all that for prop trading. I FELL into that daydream/fantasy. And I couldn't get out for like 3-4years. I wished I had those years of my life back. Luckily, I snapped out of it because financially it was bordering on disaster.

I mean yeah, some days you are up. Some days you are down.etc. But unless you are one of those gifted few, trading is probably the hardest thing you'll ever do. And even after working really hard, there's no guarantee you'll make any significant amount of money!

Now, I'm back. And I'm so GLAD I didn't started out trading right out of college.
Then I wouldn't have any marketable skills. But I came back to the normal working world and refreshed those skills. And earning a decent living again.

I'm not saying I wouldn't try trading again. It's still in me. Always will be. But I'll approach it from a more rational plan. I would plan out a strategy. Backtest it. Study my past mistakes. Plan. Plan. Plan. I think a lot of newbies just like the "action" of trading. But you gotta remember you are competing with some of the best minds in finance and Wall St.

Do you have a valid edge? Most people who go into trading don't even know what their edge is! They just throw on the wall and see what works. Would you do that if you were even planning to a small weekend trip? Let's just drive around until we find something to do?!

But people don't even give a second thought when they decide that with their careers and tens of thousands of their personal money in trading.

Sounds almost ridiculous! But that's how most newbies approach trading.

Take this word of advice from the wise who has been there and done that. I'm not trying to discourage but I'm saying 99.99% of the time the risk outweight the gains for most people. Most of the people I know who are in prop trading didn't make jack. And many quit.

Or worst yet, what happend IF you got "lucky" and do make 6 figure your first year. Just out of pure luck. And the market changes and you SUCk the following year. But you still think you are good. And you try to grind it out year after year after year. And go nowhere and earn minimal wages from trading. And you have no marketable skills that people who want to hire you.

Like a good trader, you should make a decision (EVERY DECISION ) in trading as well as in life as a risk/reward analysis. What's the downside? If I was this wise when I started out trading years ago,then I would probably do well.

But it takes some humble pie to reach these conclusions. But one day... I'll come back with a vengeance. But still keep my stable job.

Wisdom rises on the ruins of follies..

misctrader
 
Well there appears to be two clear sides to this argument. I appreciate input from both!

I have a written offer, and about 3 weeks to accept. I'm sure it's an at-will contract, and it has no performance requirements or ground for termination clauses. It does spell out the commission structure. I would be a salaried employee with a 401k, benefits, etc. And I would not be trading with MY personal savings. (I think a lot of people have skipped over some posts detailing this.)

And personally, I think that if I were to fail within 6 months to a year that I could make it back to a Computer Engineering position. I've had 5 consecutive years of intern experience in my degree (dating back to high school), full time in the summer and part time during school, so I'm a bit seasoned for my age. I know what I would be going away from, at least.

DanoXP: Yes I have a written offer. The company has excellent references. And I have read Bringing Down the House, it's good.

Thanks, everyone for their input. I wasn't expecting such different points of view. One post will say, "Do it now, while you're young and have no commitments, and can take the risk." Others say, "Do engineering now, prop later."

Continue posting if you have something to say! I'm not ignorant, and I'm taking everyone's advice very seriously.
 
If your offer is truly as great as you make it sound I'd lean toward the trading. Just bear in mind you are hurting your marketability in the engineering world.

If you find yourself looking for engineering work in less than a year, lie and say you were travelling.

Best of luck!
 
misctrader,

It would be very useful for all the new (and old) guys if u recite your experiences during the 3/4 years when u were trading for a living.

For example, how much capital u started with? What styles u tried? (scalp? tf?) How did u "fail"? (lost $? didn't found an edge?) During those 3-4 years didn't u at least improve in trading?

many thanks.
 
No offense to you misctrader, but just because you struggled and didnt succeed to the level you would have liked, doesnt mean that this guy who is interested in a trading career cant become a great trader himself. You say that you fell in love with the fantasy of trading and thats where you first mistake was. If you think that way, I do agree that your chances of success are slim to none. But if you come into the business accepting that you know nothing and will have to work your ass off in order to get to a level where you can start being profitable and then later on get to the level where you are very profitable, then you will know thats it's not a "fantasy job" but a real career. The makets move everyday, stocks go up and stocks go down. Buyers and sellers, buyers and sellers. If this is the case, then why assume that you or anyone else will not be able to trade profitably?
And some of your statements couldnt be more false. 99.99% of the time the risks outweigh the rewards??? If that were the case, there would be no traders at all and you and I both know that thats not reality. There are thousands of people who make their living trading the markets daily and do very well.
I'll end with this: If you really want this to be your career and train yourself to think and act a certain way according to what the markets tell you and you check your ego at the door and you keep your emotions in control regardless of what is happening, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot make this work.
If you are weak and unwilling to take risks in life, then you are not cut out for this business. Good luck to you, whatever you decide.
 
my two cents :

I'm an IT consultant with a bit less than 1o years experience,
I 'm a consultant and my "company" makes about 600 $ per day when I'm working......there are some traders who average that but I DO IT everyday without the stress of daydrating,//
I also trade from work (no day trading) but still I'm able to identify opportunities and have a much as 2/3 trades per day when I want...
a lot of markets are open 24h now, think forex, cme:globex....you don't have to trade from 9 to 5, trade after work
don't ruin your career daytrading, you'll deeply regret it later.

100k /year not trading
from 1k to 5k per month from trades


Trade example : bought PFE last month, made 10 % so far
bought LEXR two weeks ago, made some cash from it
bought RYAAY couple months ago

I keep my positions anything from 2 weeks to 6 months and I NEVER READ CHARTS no do I believe in Astrology (and I thank my CS bachelor for that I'm a very rational person.....TA is utter bullshit and that's what most of the people here are relying on to take their trading decisions)
daytrading = loserland...
 
Quote from oktiri:

[...]
daytrading = loserland...
More...
That is a very strong opinion and bold statement. One thing one must accept as a trader is that it is close to impossible to know everything well enough to make judgement on it. Hence, daytrading might be a heck of a lot more profitable than swing trading at times and vice versa. I trade full time and I have a trading business. We all scalp. We don't take positions overnight. The returns on investment net of cost on a month over month basis are extremely high and may be impossible to achieve with consistency on a swing system.

The cost: A trader is on edge all day watching the screen for every little uptick in anticipation of a breakout. It demands a lot of focus and some volatility. The overhead cost is also higher to be on the leading edge, but the incremental cost is much lower (commish, etc). Different strokes for different folks.

I believe you can make as little or as much money as you can imagine using ANY of the styles available. The limitations are the trader's desire, belief in their abilities, discipline, aptitude, resolve, courage, your luck/karma and various other characteristics. I can almost guarantee that there are very few styles out there with the returns of a well trained scalper. I'm offering this view as a counterbalance for the quote above.

As in everything else in life, accepting a job offer in an engineering discipline will provide the same opportunities as trading or whatever other career you choose. It all goes back to having the same characteristics and using what you have to overcome your inner weaknesses whether in engineering or trading. Engineering can open doors to profits that trading will never provide. Trading might do the same. The key thing is to position yourself in a way where you can take advantage of both. This is why I recommended getting a couple of years corporate experience under your belt first. This will help you later in life when you get to a point where you need to organize yourself as a business and run as a business while trading.

Don't be deceived into thinking that traders are a bunch of guys in boxer shorts at home making tons of money on a computer and an internet line. Trading is a business first. It requires a plan, projection and risk management just the same as a small business startup. Eventually, most traders get to a point where they will have to organize and run themselves as a business to continue to grow or to survive. This is where your corporate experience comes handy.

The bottom line is: Don't make a decision to do anything unless you plan to run with it 100% from goal line to goal line. Otherwise, you will hardly reach the potential that your mind was created for.

Best wishes on your decision.
 
FuturesTrader,
My statement about daytrading= loserland may apply 99 % percent of the time and not in te 1 % that is you.....that still makes you a pretty small minority
what you should not give this fellla is a wrong impression about his "probability" to succeed as a daytrader in a prop firm.
one of the things I learned from working a normal job, and god knows that working as a developer is stressful enough, is to better handle stress and keep my emotions in check..I used to be much more impulsive coming out of college. i don't daytrade but MOST of the posts in this forum are pretty positive that success has a lot to do with money management and un-emotional entry and exit of a trade....age and some experiene may help in the future
 
Quote from oktiri:

FuturesTrader,
My statement about daytrading= loserland may apply 99 % percent of the time and not in te 1 % that is you.....that still makes you a pretty small minority
what you should not give this fellla is a wrong impression about his "probability" to succeed as a daytrader in a prop firm.
one of the things I learned from working a normal job, and god knows that working as a developer is stressful enough, is to better handle stress and keep my emotions in check..I used to be much more impulsive coming out of college. i don't daytrade but MOST of the posts in this forum are pretty positive that success has a lot to do with money management and un-emotional entry and exit of a trade....age and some experiene may help in the future
More...
I didn't take offense to your statement. I am just merely stating a contrasting view.

By definition, the majority of traders have to lose in order for the minority to win. That is just the way it is. Otherwise, there will be no money to be made. Some of these traders lose their own money as locals or institutional money as bank traders/prop traders, etc. Either way, with so many losing, it must be a difficult game. Hence, it must be treated as a business with proper risk management and the ability to mold oneself to the markets. Some believe that if you trade long enough, you will eventually give back everything plus some (assuming you don't have a good risk/money management scheme). It is much like the odds in a casino. It is not that the market is set up this way or it is a conspiracy. It is simply the way the human mind works. As we grow and our lives morph into various circumstances, we eventually have difficulty keeping up with our competitors. Naturally, this can be planned for and overcome. Again, I'm talking about the majority.

I also have learned that learning to trade during a difficult market tends to yield better traders. I have known and heard of a large number of equities traders who made millions during the tech boom and then lost it all before moving on to real estate or scrambling to get a job. Almost all of the ones I know of started trading right out of college (my generation) and didn't have any skills to fall back on when the market changed. This is why I am recommending that the OP explore his studied career first and then trade. Trading will always be here and it is possible to trade later even without a great offer.

There are some great points here. I think the OP has plenty to go on. Some good contrasting points and some realistic ideas/situations. It is nice to see the number of people who will try to help here at ET. I truly enjoy this type of thread.
 
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