Collective2 ... looking for feedback from signal-providers

dom993

dom993

I am evaluating a couple of options to monetize my trading system while I trade it live - one of these options being to offer a signal-service through Collective2.

My system runs in NinjaTrader, Ninja only offers to send MKT orders to C2 (after an order is filled in an account mirrored in C2) - this will have so-much delay & associated slippage that it isn't a viable option IMO.

Then there are a couple of utilities to replicate orders from TWS to C2 (IB2C2 & HPB), that seems a better option, but I can foresee an ocean of trouble (if not for me, for subscribers) when my system gets a "lucky" fill (price hit the LMT but didn't trade through), as it will generate exit orders while subscribers might not have any matching position. I am also wondering if, plain & simple, C2 can be used for day-trading systems (entry-signal to entry usually a good number of seconds - 10+, but sometimes as little as 1 or 2 sec).

What is C2 reliability level? Bugs or error in relay of signals, servers outages, etc.

Last but not least, what's your experience w/ subscriptions ? Time to 1st subscriber, time to 10 subscribers, subscriber churn, etc.

Thanks in advance & happy new-year!

PS- Are there alternatives to C2 for futures trading systems ?
 
Since ET was down yesterday, I was so bored, I actually logged into C2 and had a look at the systems. Now they actually show the number of subscribers, so that is a change in the policy. I couldn't find a system that I actually liked, but maybe I am picky.

Anyhow, maybe you should ask those questions on C2's message board, you would get better/more answers... You didn't tell much about your system, frequency of trades, vehicle, etc.

Write a very detailed description of your system with some basic rules, and stick to those rules. Subscribers don't like surprises...
 
Quote from dom993:


My system runs in NinjaTrader, Ninja only offers to send MKT orders to C2 (after an order is filled in an account mirrored in C2) - this will have so-much delay & associated slippage that it isn't a viable option IMO.
More...

What about using one of C2s many other API options? The simplest being sending [limit] orders via SMTP? Sure SMTP could be too slow to you but just mentioning it and you don't know til you try.

The only other comments I recall regarding subscribers is that a system got one or two a month and there was a lot of churn that caused it never to get more than that. I don't know if it was a bad system or what.

Look forward to hearing your experience. Thanks.
 
A good system that can run on limit orders sent a decent time in advance is a decent candidate for C2. But it doesn't like that's what you've got.

If you're using market orders, or entering limit orders that require immediate attention, you'll be frustrated. Your trades will be logged not based on your fills, but the fills of your subscribers, assuming you have any. That in itself can be a challenge. Add also system delays and data issues coming and going. And to build a subscriber base that makes any of this worthwhile will take you a year or more of solid returns.
 
Quote from lindq:

A good system that can run on limit orders sent a decent time in advance is a decent candidate for C2. But it doesn't like that's what you've got.

If you're using market orders, or entering limit orders that require immediate attention, you'll be frustrated. Your trades will be logged not based on your fills, but the fills of your subscribers, assuming you have any. That in itself can be a challenge. Add also system delays and data issues coming and going. And to build a subscriber base that makes any of this worthwhile will take you a year or more of solid returns.
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Thanks, useful information. Seems you are talking from experience.

So, what other options does a potential signal provider like dom has? Have you heard about tradestation strategy network - do you think it is better?
 
Subscribers will get the short end of the stick. What I hate about C2 two things #1 just a few seconds delay is enough to really kill you with slippage if a stock is moving in a certain direction from my personal experience. In that case the returns will not mirror the system returns. Secondly, the system descriptions never state the rules so you are at the mercy of whatever black swan type event comes up in the system, LOL.
 
C2 is definitely not for day trading systems unless they are based on limit orders placed in advance (say a minute or so).

I guess, I am not the first one to say it in this thread, but let me just repeat it.

I say so because I know at least two people who wanted to do something like that. They are fast e-mini scalpers and they found C2 totally useless for their trading methods.
 
Subscribers are all playing with hot money and don't understand, nor care, that systems have drawdowns, so they flee quickly at the first sign of weakness, creating a lot of churn.

Also, they want something for nothing. For example, pay $50 a month for a system that generates over $1K in net profits.

Two brokers, Striker and Attain are better business models than C2 and don't have any of the latency issues because subscribers get executions immediately from their servers where the strategies reside. Also, developers keep 100% of the fees. The brokers make their money from commissions.
 
Quote from rolextrader:

Two brokers, Striker and Attain are better business models than C2 and don't have any of the latency issues because subscribers get executions immediately from their servers where the strategies reside. Also, developers keep 100% of the fees. The brokers make their money from commissions.
More...

Any other brokers, besides the above two, provide the same service ?
 
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