What good is the flight data recorder? We know what happened. A missile hit the plane. The recorder is not going to say who fired it or why.
CNBS took 20 minutes to report the plane shot down
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What good is the flight data recorder? We know what happened. A missile hit the plane. The recorder is not going to say who fired it or why.
So by this logic China is taking a big risk by not getting involved as well. Brazil? Big risk. Australia? Same.
I used to feel exactly as you did, but no more. I am totally in Pat Buchanan's camp now. Even the so-called "lesson" of WW II and munich, chamberlain, etc I now doubt.
What happens in Ukraine is far more important to Russia, a semi-superpower, than us. We should back off and let Putin handle it as he sees fit. How would we react if he started threatening us over our relations with mexico? Would we just roll over and go with whatever he said? We have no interests in Ukraine. The idea that he will go from meddling in eastern Ukraine, with has a high percentage of russian residents, to trying to take over Europe or whatever has McCain in a froth, is ridiculous.
Good news is that two flight recorders seem to have been found from the wreckage. Do both record the same flight information?
If so, perhaps one could be sent to a NATO partner (the Netherlands) and the other independently to China. If there is a third, give it to Malaysia.Transcripts could then be prepared independently and compared simultaneously. That would go a long way to knowing what really happened here. Since Kiev has the air traffic conversation directing the plane on its flight path, it would be hard for transcripts to be compromised within a war zone. Any government against this idea would have suspicion fall on them. Any differences would be telling. Could this idea work?
I am confused about what seems to be the American government media position. It seems to be that Russia supplied the missiles but didn't actually fire them at the plane. (BTW, I am pretty sure that the American and the Russian and the Chinese spy satellites already know where the missile was fired from). They seem to be pointing at holding Russia guilty for supplying the weapon that downed the civilian plane. Russia is cagey and blames the government in Ukraine that fired the missiles (rebels or Ukraine I am not sure?) Russia sold the weapons to a Ukrainian government that doesn't exist. If they were captured by rebels, then are the Russians liable anyways for supplying them? If governments are claiming something similar to the California Felony Murder law then wouldn't the US also be open to prosecution for selling weapons that fell into unfriendly hands? Seems like a very risky position for the media to take.
What am I missing here?
Well I don't know what happened for sure so at least the data recorders would show objective data or would be hidden, presumably by guilty parties. I prefer to work with facts when they exist.
One recorder is placed in the nose and the other is placed in the tail. This not only doubles the chance of at least one of them being found after a crash, the difference in data if both are found gives a more complete picture of the crash, and hopefully the cause.
Of course I could be wrong since I only glean what I read in the media, not by direct evidence but In my opinion:
Bodies and recorders were turned over by rebels. IMO, most probably, the rebels are clean, because the recorders could have easily been destroyed in another "accident". Bodies are a humanitarian issue. They would be turned over regardless. If there is no data on the recorders now, then we may never know the truth.
Lots of stories of site "contamination" were presented and attempts to hide etc. So cover stories for the future reports and arguments are all over the place. Politicians around the world are grandstanding over the tragic deaths of innocents IMO. Interesting that a US reporter on camera is not contaminating but the rebels are "hiding stuff". Our local channels have been reporting utter nonsense. I have never seen propaganda so obvious.
I read that the UK will analyze both recorders (a NATO member). This points most probably to a NATO false flag IMO since when a different recording caught in Turkey, I read that another attempt to frame Russia would be made. Depending on the "evidence" to come this tragic incident could be it.
Clearly it is not a normal situation happens where planes are sent into war zones so whoever diverted the flight has partial liability. How many other planes were diverted there is key. If only one went there, then false flag is highlighted IMO.
NATO needs firm European support because it is waning as the unemployment curve rises. Ironic that the sanctions hurt Europe most of all and that their European union and leaders are losing political power. They will ultimately pay the most for what their leaders do as witnessed by the stock markets of the countries affected.
I don't totally trust Russia or the US unless hard evidence is presented. So many things years later turn out to be mis-represented. Look up operation mockingbird. That slipped up IMO when Nixon fell on his sword, but will never be allowed to happen again.
To answer the original first question, all media stories must be approved before release. (A typical war stance.) I read that a presidential order exists about this, and that Japan has one also around fukushima cleanup attempts. So the 29 American bodies onboard reported by major US media was factually incorrect. A calm report would have waited for facts. Therefore these reports were designed for emotional response IMO. Further I conclude IMO that the world is already at war. Tragic.
I think that this war is a currency war for control of the base currency. As always innocents pay the most for the mistakes of our leaders. Tragic. I sure hope I am wrong about my thoughts!
Putin issued an interesting statement. He claims that an American surveillance satellite was on station and should have concrete proof of who fired what. If he wasn't pretty sure of his position, that seems like an odd challenge to issue.
He also says Russian radar shows an Ukrainian fighter jet near the plane, which is directly contrary to the claims made by Ukrainian officials.
I suppose all these pieces of evidence can be faked by those involved. It is unfortunate that we can't accept the statements of our government at face value. After the blatant lies Obama has told us on so many subjects big and small, Putin has more credibility with me than Obama. To me, this episode is not all that different from Benghazi. Obama and Hillary blatantly lied about it for political reasons. Why should we believe them now?
He also says Russian radar shows an Ukrainian fighter jet near the plane, which is directly contrary to the claims made by Ukrainian officials.
I suppose all these pieces of evidence can be faked by those involved. It is unfortunate that we can't accept the statements of our government at face value. After the blatant lies Obama has told us on so many subjects big and small, Putin has more credibility with me than Obama. To me, this episode is not all that different from Benghazi. Obama and Hillary blatantly lied about it for political reasons. Why should we believe them now?
Lmao, go Putin, go!
Russians have many theories about the MH17 crash. One involves fake dead people.
MOSCOW â As consensus builds in the U.S. government that pro-Russian rebels are responsible for shooting down a Malaysian airliner in eastern Ukraine, Russians are embracing a smorgasbord of alternate explanations.
Like: Maybe it was actually part of an assassination plot. Maybe those bodies were planted.
Khadija Gamzatova, 50, heard on the news that Vladimir Putinâs plane crossed flight paths with the Malaysian jet at one point â and thus believes that Ukrainian government troops shot down the jet, thinking it was the Russian presidentâs plane.
âThey were flying close to one another,â said Gamzatova, sitting on a park bench in central Moscow and gesturing to show just how close she believed the planes had been. Ukrainian forces âwanted to shoot down our plane, but this is what they got.â
Tattoo artist Sergey S. had a different theory. âA whole lot of witnesses on the Internet shot video and said the corpses werenât natural, that the people died a long time before [the plane crashed],â said the 45-year-old, declining to give his last name and emphatically expressing reservations that the reporter to whom he was speaking might be an American spy.
No evidence has emerged to support such explanations. But in Russia, each has earned the stamp of approval of either a mainstream media outlet or an influential corner of the Internet.
More>>
Russians have many theories about the MH17 crash. One involves fake dead people.
MOSCOW â As consensus builds in the U.S. government that pro-Russian rebels are responsible for shooting down a Malaysian airliner in eastern Ukraine, Russians are embracing a smorgasbord of alternate explanations.
Like: Maybe it was actually part of an assassination plot. Maybe those bodies were planted.
Khadija Gamzatova, 50, heard on the news that Vladimir Putinâs plane crossed flight paths with the Malaysian jet at one point â and thus believes that Ukrainian government troops shot down the jet, thinking it was the Russian presidentâs plane.
âThey were flying close to one another,â said Gamzatova, sitting on a park bench in central Moscow and gesturing to show just how close she believed the planes had been. Ukrainian forces âwanted to shoot down our plane, but this is what they got.â
Tattoo artist Sergey S. had a different theory. âA whole lot of witnesses on the Internet shot video and said the corpses werenât natural, that the people died a long time before [the plane crashed],â said the 45-year-old, declining to give his last name and emphatically expressing reservations that the reporter to whom he was speaking might be an American spy.
No evidence has emerged to support such explanations. But in Russia, each has earned the stamp of approval of either a mainstream media outlet or an influential corner of the Internet.
More>>
There it is, it's all about Obama.
Sure wish McCain had won. He'd show those Russkies.