C'mon McCain Supporters. Force McCain to Dump Palin. This Isn't Funny Anymore.

BTW,

not that I am a Clinton basher, i was just making a point as it goes both ways.

Guess who started the Wall St deregulation laws?

Honestly, i think it was a good thing, and this current problem is NOT the fault of Wall St (The FED, and absurd lending).

My point is they blame it on Bush. Had very little to do with it. yes, he is an idiot. the fact is however, the FED has been avoiding a recession since the tech wreck and 9-11 at all costs. It caught up. its cyclical. let it happen! BTW, the FED is completely non partisan and insulated from the Prez. They do as they see fit.
 
Quote from Jayford:

BTW,

not that I am a Clinton basher, i was just making a point as it goes both ways.

Guess who started the Wall St deregulation laws?

Honestly, i think it was a good thing, and this current problem is NOT the fault of Wall St (The FED, and absurd lending).

My point is they blame it on Bush. Had very little to do with it. yes, he is an idiot. the fact is however, the FED has been avoiding a recession since the tech wreck and 9-11 at all costs. It caught up. its cyclical. let it happen! BTW, the FED is completely non partisan and insulated from the Prez. They do as they see fit.
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It is important to concentrate on substance versus appearance. People keep pimping community reinvestment actbut that act has nothing to do with derivatives. It was not that act that created LOTS of toxic paper with counter party crap and other things. The operative word here is that the act required to OFFER loans. I could offer you a 30 year 20 percent down 7% a year mortgage OR I could offer you an interest only or adjustable rate mortgage. Which one is more predatory and more destructive?

Fannie and Freddie were both owned by investors (but sponsored by government) before take over. Whose fault is it that they abused their government support to dabble in these moronic mortgages and others went along and multiplied it. Whose fault is it that an investment bank like Lehman dabbled in mortgages and CDOS? Lehman had no obligation to provide any community credit to anyone (it was not its line of business anyway) What was Merrill doing in it? Or AIG?

It is important to keep in mind APPEARANCES are not the same thing as facts. Making sure banks OFFER credit to everyone is a no brainer. Creating situations where people were getting multiple mortgages to "flip" homes is not.
 
Jay, I'm with you on the tax thing.

Here's the rub: Taxes were lower under Clinton than they were under any other President but W.

We've seen how that worked out.

Economic matters are holistic, almost. It's just not about keeping taxes low - though that's important. It's the other, significant things you do, as well.

That's why I prefer Obama. Yes, he may raise taxes at the margin, but the amounts he is endorsing are small (top marginal income tax rate for those making more than 250k would go from 36% to 39% and he'd return the capital gains tax to roughly where it was under Clinton, which was lower than where it was under Reagan) but he has more of a Clintonian approach to the markets.

Obama's plan outlines tax cuts for those making less than 250k. I will pay more tax under Obama, but I know that the middle class is what makes or breaks the economy, and I'd rather have more, stronger and wealthier middle class consumers, because I'll net more even after paying the modest increased rates that Obama is proposing, as I'll have more business and more customers.

I hate taxes. Most people do. But c'mon, Bush cut taxes radically while raising spending radically. HE DOUBLED OUR NATIONAL DEBT, WITH 6 YEARS OF A GOP CONTROLLED CONGRESS, IN 8 YEARS! He took it from just under 6 to 11 trillion!

Be fair. Be objective. The GOP as you represent it and wax poetically about has died. RIP.

Obama has a technical way that we need right now. I am confident he'll surround himself with the best and brightest specialists. I believe he's sincere.

I don't dislike McCain, but he's a blunt object when we need surgical precision to walk the tightrope that lay before us in this odd future we face.

Obama's much more that surgeon than McCain.
 
Quote from IShopAtPublix:

It is important to concentrate on substance versus appearance. People keep pimping community reinvestment actbut that act has nothing to do with derivatives. It was not that act that created LOTS of toxic paper with counter party crap and other things. The operative word here is that the act required to OFFER loans. I could offer you a 30 year 20 percent down 7% a year mortgage OR I could offer you an interest only or adjustable rate mortgage. Which one is more predatory and more destructive?

Fannie and Freddie were both owned by investors (but sponsored by government) before take over. Whose fault is it that they abused their government support to dabble in these moronic mortgages and others went along and multiplied it. Whose fault is it that an investment bank like Lehman dabbled in mortgages and CDOS? Lehman had no obligation to provide any community credit to anyone (it was not its line of business anyway) What was Merrill doing in it? Or AIG?

It is important to keep in mind APPEARANCES are not the same thing as facts. Making sure banks OFFER credit to everyone is a no brainer. Creating situations where people were getting multiple mortgages to "flip" homes is not.
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That was imprssive.

Simplify please.

Best answer imo:

no mark to market. problem ended right there.

Low interest loans to suffering firms.

That is all we need. We are going into an ugly recession regardless.

Jayford
 
Quote from ByLoSellHi:

Jay, I'm with you on the tax thing.

Here's the rub: Taxes were lower under Clinton than they were under any other President but W.
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Yes they were, because he inherited that, and RAISED taxes. Gov always does NOW.

If you go back even one day you will see I hate Bush as well. I was just sticking up for him cause its not his fault. Blame the FED.
 
Quote from Jayford:

over a number of years. As every politician in the history of America has said. Eventually.

Newt and The Contract for America mandated immediately. That is my sky. I was in my 30's at the time and very into politics. Were you even out of college? And once again, raise taxes on the people who create jobs.
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Raise taxes on the people who can afford to pay them, not on the people who can't (the middle class).

Bottom line: the last two presidents to actually balance the budget were Democrats named Clinton and Johnson.

Reagan talked and talked about a balanced budget but he never once led by example by actually submitting one.

Evidently the only time Republicans really want to balance the budget is when a Democrat is in the Oval Office. By your own rationale, that should be all the reason you need to vote for Obama.
 
For someone who makes a lot of moronic posts you're pretty bright. Sort of like Palin. :p I read your health care posts and while I didn't necessarily agree with your premise you made a some solid outside the box points. You nailed it here too.

The media for starters kept erroniously calling this the sub-prime crisis for months when it was across the board ugly. LEH for instance. The got hit by financing to developers and then like all the other IB failures they were in carry trades up the ass. These trades are almost always straight spreads. Long yield-short Treasuries against them. That's why the leverage was insane. They're just de facto futures spreads. When the market rolled over there was no where to go with size and they just kept adding. It was one of those if you liked toxic at 100 over the 10yr then you'll love it at 340 over. To make things even worse Treasuries rallied. A lot of this so-called "flight to quality" buying further out on the curve was short covering on the ZN side when the shit was unwound. I know I made a short story long but yes it's disingenuous to assign blame to lower income borrowers for EVERY blow up.

Quote from IShopAtPublix:

It is important to concentrate on substance versus appearance. People keep pimping community reinvestment actbut that act has nothing to do with derivatives. It was not that act that created LOTS of toxic paper with counter party crap and other things. The operative word here is that the act required to OFFER loans. I could offer you a 30 year 20 percent down 7% a year mortgage OR I could offer you an interest only or adjustable rate mortgage. Which one is more predatory and more destructive?

Fannie and Freddie were both owned by investors (but sponsored by government) before take over. Whose fault is it that they abused their government support to dabble in these moronic mortgages and others went along and multiplied it. Whose fault is it that an investment bank like Lehman dabbled in mortgages and CDOS? Lehman had no obligation to provide any community credit to anyone (it was not its line of business anyway) What was Merrill doing in it? Or AIG?

It is important to keep in mind APPEARANCES are not the same thing as facts. Making sure banks OFFER credit to everyone is a no brainer. Creating situations where people were getting multiple mortgages to "flip" homes is not.
More...
 
I never said McCain is stupid - he's not.

I did make a reference to Palin as a 'dumb bitch' in a thread title, and while I don't see her as particularly bright or experienced, I actually don't think she's "dumb." There's a wide gap between being "dumb" and even of average intelligence.

I honestly do think Palin will do well at the debate tomorrow because I watched footage of her when she was running for governor of Alaska, and she did a fair job. I don't like her mannerisms or style, and I find her grating, but that's not substantive, and it's a subjective view of mine.

I also definitely don't believe that VP debates move elections. Lloyd Bentsen absolutely crucified Dan Quayle, and it ended up meaning nothing when Bush's father won the POTUS in 1988.
 
I think Palin's problem is that she's getting prepped by this person:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

She just needs somebody new to prep her. :p

Honestly I think she will do very well against Biden tomorrow and win back a lot of the conservative supporters that are running away from her. With her expectations being so low, if she just manages to show up it'll be a win.

So I'm predicting she will have a good debate.....I have already jumped off the McCain train and am planning on not voting, so if Palin absolutely blows this debate like the Katey Curic fiasco then I will agree to hand over my mail in ballot to my wife who will definitely vote for Obama.
 
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