CME Group Announces Launch of Bitcoin Futures

johnarb said:
1. I was not referring to you specifically but to the traders who are going to be trading the CME futures on bitcoin.
2. I don't know how to respond (seriously, not trying to be funny). The markets do what they do and as someone whose portfolio is mostly made up of an altcoin, I'll be talking up my book if I were to discuss this.
3. That's a subjective statement, but let's just wait for the(CFTC) regulated CME futures markets.
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1. You did post that right after my post about regulated futures though ;)
2. I know.. you're free to do that... I don't really care. But, I'd like to have all the facts out for everyone... if you're actively saying things that are factually not true you're just part of the pump and dump.
3. Uhm... what is subjective? That I question the pros of manipulation? I think everyone except those who manipulate would agree that it's a bad thing.... and also that it borders fraud...
 
JackRab said:
1. You did post that right after my post about regulated futures though ;)
2. I know.. you're free to do that... I don't really care. But, I'd like to have all the facts out for everyone... if you're actively saying things that are factually not true you're just part of the pump and dump.
3. Uhm... what is subjective? That I question the pros of manipulation? I think everyone except those who manipulate would agree that it's a bad thing.... and also that it borders fraud...
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1. Bad timing :) I'm responding to the thread CME Bitcoin futures and it's an active one.
2. The bitcoin (not any forks or any of the 1200 altcoins) supply cannot be altered.
3. Easily manipulated is a strong claim. That requires hard evidence. The 24 hour volume is $3.6 Billion on btc which I guess is relatively small for a currency, but again the claim is quite big and a demonstration would be nice.
 
johnarb said:
$3.6 Billion on btc which I guess is relatively small for a currency, but again the claim is quite big and a demonstration would be nice.
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You can trade against your own orders without restriction... so you can drive the price with volume to back it up. Also, spoofing is allowed... since it's not regulated. Colluding is allowed... since it's not regulated. Hacking, not sure where that sits, since it's not regulated.

All these are possible on normal exchanges... but at least there's someone with authority to look for it and step in with criminal charges. But bitcoiners don't really want that authority, so I'm 100% convinced that this happens.
 
JackRab said:
You can trade against your own orders without restriction... so you can drive the price with volume to back it up. Also, spoofing is allowed... since it's not regulated. Colluding is allowed... since it's not regulated. Hacking, not sure where that sits, since it's not regulated.

All these are possible on normal exchanges... but at least there's someone with authority to look for it and step in with criminal charges. But bitcoiners don't really want that authority, so I'm 100% convinced that this happens.
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I really don't get it.... so you wait till all is regulated before you dare to take a trade?
That will take 5 to 10 years at least (and yes it will be regulated by then, no doubt), and in the meantime you lost the opportunity to make 10 to 100 times profitable trades? What a waste!

In 10 years the whole world has regulated crypto markets, and Bitcoin will be quote 100.000+ (just because more regulation sucks more people in). And you missed that train.
I really don't get it.... you will hate yourself.
 
Hoi said:
I really don't get it.... so you wait till all is regulated before you dare to take a trade?
That will take 5 to 10 years at least (and yes it will be regulated by then, no doubt), and in the meantime you lost the opportunity to make 10 to 100 times profitable trades? What a waste!

In 10 years the whole world has regulated crypto markets, and Bitcoin will be quote 100.000+ (just because more regulation sucks more people in). And you missed that train.
I really don't get it.... you will hate yourself.
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BS , BTC wont be at 100 000 because if it gets regulated then any high tech company or even a government or a bank will introduce a better version of BTC their own BTC .

BTC network was congested the other week , everything was stuck , and nearly nobody is using it , the blockchain cant handle all these transactions and its getting more expensive by the time - the fees - .
 
Surprise said:
BS , BTC wont be at 100 000 because if it gets regulated then any high tech company or even a government or a bank will introduce a better version of BTC their own BTC .

BTC network was congested the other week , everything was stuck , and nearly nobody is using it , the blockchain cant handle all these transactions and its getting more expensive by the time - the fees - .
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Man! what do you have to learn much...
 
Hoi said:
I really don't get it.... so you wait till all is regulated before you dare to take a trade?
That will take 5 to 10 years at least (and yes it will be regulated by then, no doubt), and in the meantime you lost the opportunity to make 10 to 100 times profitable trades? What a waste!

In 10 years the whole world has regulated crypto markets, and Bitcoin will be quote 100.000+ (just because more regulation sucks more people in). And you missed that train.
I really don't get it.... you will hate yourself.
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Why would I hate myself? I'm not some 1k account guy who need 100x leverage to trade....

I will trade the futures when they become available... but I'm not keen on depositing big money on some exchange which don't have adequate regulations and security...
 
JackRab said:
I'm not some 1k account guy who need 100x leverage to trade....
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I'm neither, and don't use any leverage.

JackRab said:
I will trade the futures when they become available... ...
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Good to hear, but cash-settled futures aren't the real thing, and those are leveraged. I wonder how you would handle last weekend's 17% jump, when CME is closed and you are short (or visa versa).

JackRab said:
but I'm not keen on depositing big money on some exchange which don't have adequate regulations and security...
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Hedge funds have no problems with that. They are moving much bigger money than you and me in and out the major Bitcoin exchanges (some with OTC desks).
 
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Hoi said:
I'm neither, and don't use any leverage.


Good to hear, but cash-settled futures aren't the real thing, and those are leveraged. I wonder how you would handle last weekend's 17% jump, when CME is closed and you are short (or visa versa).


Hedge funds have no problems with that. They are moving much bigger money than you and me in and out the major Bitcoin exchanges (some with OTC desks).
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I don't really trade leveraged... I trade according to my account size. Which means I look at underlying value rather than maximize position via full margin use... that's a big difference.
 
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