CME exchanges fees in Jan 2004

[nononsense]

Quote from Ditch:



To name a "few" European tax havens: Guernsey, Belgium, Holland, Gibraltar, Monaco, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Luxemburg....
Why is it that you regard yourself as an expert on "European" tax legislation, as you persist on making generic comments on this subject, that are way off as there's no such thing as "European" tax law. Nationwise Europe is a very diversified landscape, and so is the tax legislation in each country.

Ditch,

Indeed, Europe can and is be very diversified. Your list of "European tax havens" contains some funny names though. Maybe you don't know much about Europe Ditch, but I can tell you that citizens of at least two countries in your list are to be found in many places in the world trying to escape the strangling tax regimes of their homelands. This does not mean that these countries don't cater to foreigners provided this is profitable to a small elite.

Ditch, you should tell us whether you see this through the eyes of the victims or the eyes of the profiteers.

nononsense

 

[Ditch]

Quote from nononsense:



Ditch,

Indeed, Europe can and is be very diversified. Your list of "European tax havens" contains some funny names though. Maybe you don't know much about Europe Ditch, but I can tell you that citizens of at least two countries in your list are to be found in many places in the world trying to escape the strangling tax regimes of their homelands. This does not mean that these countries don't cater to foreigners provided this is profitable to a small elite.

Ditch, you should tell us whether you see this through the eyes of the victims or the eyes of the profiteers.

nononsense

For your info, i live in the Netherlands, have been trading for a living for 2 years now, pay zero taxes on trading profits and have a solid educational background in tax law, as i did numerous courses on the subject during my study (Masters in business-economics) and career. So my question still is : what makes you so knowledgable on the subject, besides haven spoken to a couple of well-to-do Dutchmen?

 

[nononsense]

Quote from Ditch:



For your info, i live in the Netherlands, have been trading for a living for 2 years now, pay zero taxes on trading profits and have a solid educational background in tax law, as i did numerous courses on the subject during my study (Masters in business-economics) and career. So my question still is : what makes you so knowledgable on the subject, besides haven spoken to a couple of well-to-do Dutchmen?

Well Ditch,

Good for you. Your solid education in tax law does not cover anything outside of the Netherlands. As you may recall, some posters doubted about the non-taxation of trading profits in Holland. If I were you, I wouldn't take any risk. (If I am not mistaken Germany also has rather high trading profit taxes right now - this may change in Germany.) I can tell you, it ain't so in other European (Union) countries. Some posters mentioned 12% for Italy. I can tell you that your "tax haven" Belgium like France taxes trading profits as full earned income! No solid tax education here Ditch!

About your "couple of well-to-do Dutchmen", you seem to be unaware of the impressive exodus of "Hollanders" down south seeking to escape the barbaric tax regime. Real wealthy Dutchmen are not bothered by this as they new from longtime ago how to hide their wealth legally. Also the fact that you include Holland and Belgium in your list of European tax havens is not very charitable towards these victimized people allowing you to trade undisturbed in their midst. This is truly prepostourous! Of course sweetdeals exist for some smart foreigners.

Ditch, I don't know whether you are a US citizen. In the USA a tax return is in the public record. In both these above countries a tax return is considered "confidential" and private. Would you maintain that this is conducive to honest taxation practices?

May you enjoy your taxfree expatriate status,

nononsense

 

[Ditch]

Quote from nononsense:



Well Ditch,

Good for you. Your solid education in tax law does not cover anything outside of the Netherlands. As you may recall, some posters doubted about the non-taxation of trading profits in Holland. If I were you, I wouldn't take any risk. (If I am not mistaken Germany also has rather high trading profit taxes right now - this may change in Germany.) I can tell you, it ain't so in other European (Union) countries.

About your "couple of well-to-do Dutchmen", you seem to be unaware of the impressive exodus of "Hollanders" down south seeking to escape the barbaric tax regime. Real wealthy Dutchmen are not bothered by this as they new from longtime ago how to hide their wealth legally. Also the fact that you include Holland and Belgium in your list of European tax havens is not very charitable towards these victimized people allowing you to trade undisturbed in their midst. This is truly prepostourous! Of course sweetdeals exist for some smart foreigners.

Ditch, I don't know whether you are a US citizen. In the USA a tax return is in the public record. In both these above countries a tax return is considered "confidential" and private. Would you maintain that this is conducive to honest taxation practices?

May you enjoy your taxfree expatriate status,

nononsense

The only thing that is prepostorous, is your ignorance. Holland has been enjoying a solid reputation as a tax haven for holding companies since the mid 80's. In the 90's they lost their competitive edge to Belgium. Ever noticed the vast amount of European headquarters of US-companies in Brussels? Probably not. Unaware of the exodus of wealthy Dutchmen? Well, you have to be deaf and blind to not be aware, because most of them moved to Belgium, due to the absence of capital tax over there and they all drive cars with Belgian licence plates.
As for the sweet expatriate status i'm enjoying, i'm Dutch by birth. Your remarks only display your ignorance even more. I'll leave it that. I wish you a lot of fun with the IRS.

 

[nononsense]

Quote from Ditch:



The only thing that is prepostorous, is your ignorance. Holland has been enjoying a solid reputation as a tax haven for holding companies since the mid 80's. In the 90's they lost their competitive edge to Belgium. Ever noticed the vast amount of European headquarters of US-companies in Brussels? Probably not. Unaware of the exodus of wealthy Dutchmen? Well, you have to be deaf and blind to not be aware, because most of them moved to Belgium, due to the absence of capital tax over there and they all drive cars with Belgian licence plates.
As for the sweet expatriate status i'm enjoying, i'm Dutch by birth. Your remarks only display your ignorance even more. I'll leave it that. I wish you a lot of fun with the IRS.

Dutch,

You display a remarkeble ignorance in spite of your conviction of being well schooled in taxation rules. You mix up everything. As I said, indeed sweetdeals exist for foreigners. You stubbornly avoid to talk about the very highly taxed locals I spoke of.

As to the Dutchmen in Belgium. Again, you are rather imprecise for someone claiming to have benefited from a decent tax education, especially as you say you are Dutch born. On this forum we are talking about trading, not? What you call "no capital tax" in Belgium applies to income out of dividends for long held investments. Trading profits ARE CONSIDERED TO FLOW OUT OF PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITY AND TAXED AS ORDINARY INCOME (roughly 60%). I heard some of your countrymen say the same about Holland. Perhaps you didn't make any profits the last 2 years and did not pay taxes, many people are in this situation these days.

Furher, I don't think that a typical Dutchman comes to Belgium to avoid capital gain taxes! This has to do with the slightly more favorable taxation in Belgium of inheritances. These are mostly middle-class Dutchmen who prefer to keep their real estate outside their country of birth mainly for this reason. Also property taxes could play a role.

nononsense

 

[Ditch]

Quote from nononsense:



Dutch,

You display a remarkeble ignorance in spite of your conviction of being well schooled in taxation rules. You mix up everything. As I said, indeed sweetdeals exist for foreigners. You stubbornly avoid to talk about the very highly taxed locals I spoke of.

As to the Dutchmen in Belgium. Again, you are rather imprecise for someone claiming to have benefited from a decent tax education, especially as you say you are Dutch born. On this forum we are talking about trading, not? What you call "no capital tax" in Belgium applies to income out of dividends for long held investments. Trading profits ARE CONSIDERED TO FLOW OUT OF PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITY AND TAXED AS ORDINARY INCOME (roughly 60%). I heard some of your countrymen say the same about Holland. Perhaps you didn't make any profits the last 2 years and did not pay taxes, many people are in this situation these days.

Furher, I don't think that a typical Dutchman comes to Belgium to avoid capital gain taxes! This has to do with the slightly more favorable taxation in Belgium of inheritances. These are mostly middle-class Dutchmen who prefer to keep their real estate outside their country of birth mainly for this reason. Also property taxes could play a role.

nononsense

Nononsense,

Congratulations, You managed to succeed my expectations. I don't even want to bother commenting on your presumptions (i heard..., i spoke to..., i think...). Yet i wonder what triggers your interest in the tax legislation of the European wasteland?

 

[nononsense]

Quote from Ditch:



Nononsense,

Congratulations, You managed to succeed my expectations. I don't even want to bother commenting on your presumptions (i heard..., i spoke to..., i think...). Yet i wonder what triggers your interest in the tax legislation of the European wasteland?

Ditch,

You are obviously a native Dutch speaker. You probably meant to say:

"You managed to exceed my expectations."

Good to you,

nononsense

 

[wavetrader]

Quote from nononsense:



wavetrader,

Before touting your convictions about less desirable quality of life in the USA, could you please tell us with which other countries or geographical regions you make this comparison? If you don't your statement remains a cheap run off the mill USA-baiting thing.

nononsense [/QUOTE

I now live in Canada, born/raised in Asia, have lived in Australia, New Zealand, and most recently spent a lot of time in Europe, specifically Italy, France and England. I also spend some time in Mexico, and oh, BTW, I am currently working right now in the US. The only continent I have never been to is Africa.

I don't just make these statements for the sake of making them. I am merely 'calling it as I see it', based on my observations of quality of living in countries I've been to. Like I said, disposable income is NOT a measure of quality of life.

 

[nononsense]

Quote from wavetrader:

Quote from nononsense:



wavetrader,

Before touting your convictions about less desirable quality of life in the USA, could you please tell us with which other countries or geographical regions you make this comparison? If you don't your statement remains a cheap run off the mill USA-baiting thing.

nononsense [/QUOTE

I now live in Canada, born/raised in Asia, have lived in Australia, New Zealand, and most recently spent a lot of time in Europe, specifically Italy, France and England. I also spend some time in Mexico, and oh, BTW, I am currently working right now in the US. The only continent I have never been to is Africa.

I don't just make these statements for the sake of making them. I am merely 'calling it as I see it', based on my observations of quality of living in countries I've been to. Like I said, disposable income is NOT a measure of quality of life.

wavetrader,

Thank you for giving us a bit more information. I still think that your reference to the USA is unfair in view of your criteria:

"Cleanliness, air quality, low crime rates, high percentage of educated people in the population, social benefits, safety of life to name a few." Sticking to Europe where you say you spent a lot of time as of recent, you must have seen some romantic parts of Italy, France and England. Obviously you did not share any true worries of the people overthere. Regularly watching their TV and reading their newspapers makes me think rather differently!

Let us better stick to trading.

nononsense

 

[tradenut]

<<"Cleanliness, air quality, low crime rates, high percentage of educated people in the population, social benefits, safety of life to name a few." >>

What country offers that ? Maybe Cuba with 100% literracy, o% crime rate , social benefit for all and totally safe . Unless of course one gets involved in politics.

Canada is one that comes to mind that answers closely to that description also.