CME/CBOT shld be shat upon...

These guys make/move the markets in the USTs and I know they watch for the my clearing firm's number and match our fills real time.

The most obvious example of this abuse is at night: We will get to a way extended low in the outrights, my coworkers and I (who aren't small for the night market) will get in and then the market maker will hold the market down, repeatedly snapping the TY back sellers at the low (sometimes for hours) until we all finally either scratch or pay down in the other markets. As soon as we are all hedged or have scratched the outright to him, in literally seconds he will turn the market around taking it minimum bid bid.

It is really disgusting and disappointing that the CBOT lets this go on. But you know they don't care about the local. The market makers at night have increased the volume by about 100% in the last year. The CBOT loves it.
 
Well, I am a member of both CME and CBOT. This very topic was discussed a while ago on the futures threads, and my responses are as follows:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1058393&highlight=CCL#post1058393
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68391&perpage=6&highlight=ccl&pagenumber=3

In summary, the counter party information is used (and I have used it). But this information can not be eliminated, since that's what the clearing firm use to clear the trades (by find out what the net inventory / cash movement is). So even if this information is eliminated from the execution reports, it will still appear on the clearing dropcopies, which can then simply be correlated back to the fills in near real-time.
 
it's hard to understand why a big bank or equivalently large enterprise would invest 10's of millions in clearing code and trader database links to the exchange, and not use it to the fullest extent possible while making markets, even down to the smallest retail spec
 
Quote from Avid_Consumer:

it's hard to understand why a big bank or equivalently large enterprise would invest 10's of millions in clearing and trader database technology, and not use it to the fullest extent possible while making markets, even down to the smallest retail spec
More...

Having spent a large portion of my life inside large ibanks, I can say that the large firms tend not be very efficient and highly compartment-ized, and are knee deep in politics. When I was running my analytics group, sometimes I had to appeal directly to the global head of equities just to get access to some data that just so happen to sit on some other groups' systems.

In general, the well run smaller firms tend to be much more efficient, since they are basically run by a small group of partners or heads, which breaks down the political boundaries.
 
that corroborates my experience as well, i was in IT on a bank floor, and probably the guy regrettably making it hard for you to get that data. you have a good point, i guess just in a general sense, i would expect the purchasers of the data (MM desk I assume - either bank or small shop) not to discriminate between 1000 lots and 1 lots insofar as automated mm/algo activities are concerned

aside from vol tradability reasons, it just seems like another reason to continue investigating foreign products and exchanges between the quote firmness and mm fishiness on seemingly all US products
 
100% anonymity CAN be protected, you guys just have to invest into more decent clearing settlement processing chains & tighter chinese wall enforcement measures... if the europeans can do it... - but i suppose you guys are 1) used to it, 2) have no choice and 3) spitzer is not going to look into this since its only big boys screwing big boys after all, and cbot/cme guys receiving all manner of favours from big MMs v.probably...

guess all is well in the incredibly fair & transparent US mkts...
 
2cents,

US markets are about as fair and transparent as you can get. Almost all of the volume is done in the open market unlike Eurex. The most unfair and least transparent markets in the world are probably the Schatz, Bobl, and Bund options, where about 90% of the market is call around. Trades aren't reported to the exchange for hours, there is payment for order flow, and who knows what other types of shenanigans. I'm sure retail orders trade through institutional bids and offers as well. Yes, the US does need work on anonymity but I can assure you people will still find out who is doing what.
 
1/ I'm sure for the CME/CBOT to provide complete anonymity would be no big deal technology wise. So its odd why they don't provide it. I remember the Franz Shoarh thread where on guy said that if Franz was really pushing 1000+ lots in the ES, he'd know it from the counterparty id. That was an interesting post I forgot about till this thread came up.

2/ "Can't forget one of these guys trading/clearing at GHCO is about 10-20% of daily 10yr futures volume, so the exchanges don't want to piss him off."
That's really amazing one guy controlling 10% of the volume in the 10yr. I hear SAC controls 10% of the volume on NYSE. I hear Simon's fund Renaissance controls 10% of the volume on Nasdaq. And didn't the msummy fella in the PL thread control 10% of the volume on LU at one point? Well anyway its interesting how one or two really big players can control so much volume. I wonder if they're hold and reverse players squeezing the longs then squeezing the shorts all day long. Good topic for another thread.

3/ As far as anonymity, locals have none yet may locals make tons of money so I doubt its impossible to make money without it even if your a big player. Beside I think market manipulation is a losers game in the long run cause the market is going to do what its going to do.
 
Big boys fighting other big boys, us small retail traders should not worry much about it. Once you make it big or on your way there, that is when you start worrying about this stuff and planning how to deal with it.
 
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