CLoNiNG

[Gordon Gekko]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

God gives you the freedom of choice to believe in him or not.

who is God, in your opinion? how do you know "he" has given us this choice? how do you know he is a male? higher beings may not even have more than one sex. or maybe there's more than 2. maybe there isn't even the concept of sex for them. how can you speak with any certainty at all to ANY of this? if you tell me the bible has the answers, that's simply silly and you will look foolish.

i don't know the answers either, but at least i can admit i don't know! it's outright PITIFUL that any human being on planet earth believes they know who/what "god" is and why/how we're here.

WE DON'T FUCKING KNOW AND THAT'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH. everyone should stop the nonsense and admit they don't know either. the bible IS NOT the explanation. thinking that we humans have it all figured out is a DISGRACE to the human race. we're smarter than that.

 

[stu]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:



Assuming assumptions which generally may not be assumed.

That is quite an "open" statement.

I take it you are jesting. I wouldn't like to have to examine that as a logical response

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from Gordon Gekko:


who is God, in your opinion? how do you know "he" has given us this choice? how do you know he is a male? higher beings may not even have more than one sex. or maybe there's more than 2. maybe there isn't even the concept of sex for them. how can you speak with any certainty at all to ANY of this? if you tell be the bible has the answers, that's simply silly and you will look foolish.

i don't know the answers either, but at least i can admit i don't know! it's outright PITIFUL that any human being on planet earth believes they know who "god" is and why/how we're here.

WE DON'T FUCKING KNOW AND THAT'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH.

GG,

It is a question of faith and experience, not evidence that fits your criteria of a proof. Clearly, according to the criteria you have set forth, God cannot be proven. So why even try?

Try proving the value and existence of color to one who is blind from birth.

Same concept. Without experience, it is is futile exercise.

Proof of God is in the experience, which comes via the practice of faith. That people are willing or unwilling to practice faith is up to them, that is their own choice upon conclusion of available information, and that is their right to do so.

All will be rewarded accordingly.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Proof of God is in the experience, which comes via the practice of faith. That people are willing or unwilling to practice faith is up to them, that is their own choice upon conclusion of available information, and that is their right to do so.

All will be rewarded accordingly.

i will tell you right now, ANY experience you claim to have had through god is all in your head. this goes for anyone who makes this claim. strange things happen all the time through circumstance. let's take an example we're all familiar with. if a large number of monkeys traded stocks, there would be some that traded great. in that same way, circumstance will produce interesting outcomes in our life. people of faith will see them and jump to the conclusion that it was their belief in god. what a load of shit.

i can already see it now.... a religious person has terminally ill cancer and recovers. IT MUST HAVE BEEN GOD! yeah, right. things happen all the time through circumstance...and maybe we just don't see the REAL reason why the person was cured.

NO ONE will be rewarded through reading the bible. if you make it through a tough situation, it's because YOU did. no god helped you. if you were kidnapped and escaped, it's because you escaped. it isn't because some god helped you and your great faith in him.

why will god let the pope die? why didn't god help the people on 9/11? surely there were many religious people on the planes who said prayers when they knew they were in trouble. same goes for the people trapped in the burning buildings and elsewhere. WHY DID GOD NOT REWARD THEM?

i'll tell you why, IT'S ALL A BUNCH OF TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT.

 

[stu]

Gordon,
Your expressions are surely as close as can be. The rather feeble and childish responses to morality /religion are again expectable and disappointing and bear testament to your succinct if not rather abrupt ability to summarize.


Option,

"Proof of God is in the experience, which comes via the practice of faith. "
No it doesn't for many and You insist on making closed assertions. It can only be YOUR proof , which is NOT proof. It may prove something to you but in the definition, it is not proof.
You make statements which, like most religious believers I have met, are aloof and condescending.

"All will be rewarded accordingly." according to YOUR proof YOUR logic YOUR belief. It is arrogant and self centered expression as usual from the religious "I know because I believe" !

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from Gordon Gekko:


i will tell you right now, ANY experience you claim to have had through god is all in your head. this goes for anyone who makes this claim. strange things happen all the time through circumstance. let's take an example we're all familiar with. if a large number of monkeys traded stocks, there would be some that traded great. in that same way, circumstance will produce interesting outcomes in our life. people of faith will see them and jump to the conclusion that it was their belief in god. what a load of shit.

i can already see it now.... a religious person has terminally ill cancer and recovers. IT MUST HAVE BEEN GOD! hell no it wasn't. things happen all the time through circumstance...and maybe we just don't see the REAL reason why the person was cured.

NO ONE will be rewarded through reading the bible. if you make it though a tough situation, it's because YOU did. no god helped you. if you were kidnapped and escaped, it's because you escaped. it isn't because some god helped you and your great faith in him.

why didn't god help the people on 9/11? surely there were many religious people on the planes who said prayers when they knew they were in trouble. same goes for the people trapped in the burning buildings and elsewhere. WHY DID GOD NOT REWARD THEM?

i'll tell you why, IT'S ALL A BUNCH OF TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT.

You are entitled to your opinion, as much as I am of mine.

Try to prove that my experience is invalid.....it can't be done any more than proving to a man without a sense of smell from birth the existence and value of a perfumed odor.

I need no proof actually, but the simple fact is that you can deny my experience in whatever way you wish, but you cannot disprove it----any more than I can prove it.

That you have no faith, is your choice, not mine.

You can make definitive statements which are your opinion---however they can not be proven logically where God is concerned, your statements are a matter of your own faith in the idea that God does not exist.

No argument from me concerning your conclusions, I believe we all practice freedom of choice in these matters, just clarification that we are both practicing our own brand of faith.

Where there is choice, there is faith.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from stu:

Gordon,
Your expressions are surely as close as can be. The rather feeble and childish responses to morality /religion are again expectable and disappointing and bear testament to your succinct if not rather abrupt ability to summarize.


Option,

"Proof of God is in the experience, which comes via the practice of faith. "
No it doesn't for many and You insist on making closed assertions. It can only be YOUR proof , which is NOT proof. It may prove something to you but in the definition, it is not proof.
You make statements which, like most religious believers I have met, are aloof and condescending.

"All will be rewarded accordingly." according to YOUR proof YOUR logic YOUR belief. It is arrogant and self centered expression as usual from the religious "I know because I believe" !

My comments only appear condescending from those who are looking up at true believers.

People who practice faith see everyone on the same level.

 

[Josh_B]

Good posts!

The are some interesting questions arising with cloning and genetic engineering.

Let's say you are a person of means (power money connections etc) and you have lived a great life so far. But you need a liver transplant or any other organ to continue you life in you perceived happiness.

Would you create a clone to harvest the internal organs for your benefit? It may be the only way for you to live. ( After all he/she/it IS the perfect donor for you). Do you consider the clone an "it" just a collection of spare parts for you so your life is enhanced? Or do you consider the clone a sentient being self aware living human entity? Do you have the right to destroy the clone?

And what if that was your love one, your child, your wife or husband that needed the organs.


With genetic engineering, where can one draw the line? or Is there a line to be drawn? Do you enhance your child's performance? to what extend? longevity, brain power, disease resistance? increased hearing? sight? the list can go on...

Do you effectively create a new species? Is it a new super race? And what of the rest of humans? Are they to become slaves? destroyed? after all they have no "means" to achieve a "better" set of children etc.

Do you create a slave clone race to support your life's happiness..

Who decides who lives and who dies? What is life? sure there is a textbook definition, maybe a spiritual, or religious one. But who constructed those definitions, and are they "right" or "wrong"?? Morality? ethics? they are all constructs of ours. Frames of reference...

Where does science stops and faith starts?, are they complementing each other, or are they at war..

Is life everywhere? and what we see around us is a manifestation of what life is, filtered through our perceptions?

Are you now a God or G-D or g-d? or what ever your belief system tells you? And what is god? Definitions can vary as the number of beliefs..

It seems there are just more questions than answers..


As an ancient philosopher said before he died: The only absolute truth, is that there is no absolute truth...


Great topic GG


Josh

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Quote from stu:

Gordon,
Your expressions are surely as close as can be. The rather feeble and childish responses to morality /religion are again expectable and disappointing and bear testament to your succinct if not rather abrupt ability to summarize.

thanks, stu. you do a great job as well defending science. i think you do a better job than me. i can speak in common terms to get my point across, but you're better with specific examples and the details.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

You are entitled to your opinion, as much as I am of mine.

...your statements are a matter of your own faith in the idea that God does not exist.

777, i have no problem at all with you having an opinion that differs from mine. we are all free to believe whatever we want.

for the record, i am not for or against a belief in God. i really just don't know..AND I CAN ADMIT AND ACCEPT THAT. it also depends on what God is defined as. i am open to just about any possibility, however, i know better than to expect our current knowledge to have all the answers. nevermind current, your beliefs are basically stone age. you believe the same beliefs as the guys who invented the wheel. of all the beliefs to follow, i think i'll pass on that one. i know i'm exaggerating here, it may not be the stone age, but it might as well be..