Climate change is UN-led hoax to create 'new world order' – Australian PM's adviser

Q http://news.yahoo.com/breakup-fears-massive-antarctic-ice-shelf-study-232941608.html

Breakup fears for massive Antarctic ice shelf: study
AFP By Richard Ingham
15 hours ago (i.e. 13 May 2015)

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This October 27, 2014 photo provided by NASA shows the shadow of NASA'’s DC-8 on Antarctic sea ice
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Paris (AFP) - The largest ice shelf in the Antarctic peninsula is being thinned by warmer seas and air and could catastrophically break up, scientists said on Wednesday.

The loss of the Larsen C ice shelf could occur within a century but an earlier collapse cannot be ruled out, with major consequences for global sea levels, they said.

"We now know that two different processes are causing Larsen C to thin and become less stable," said Paul Holland from the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) who led the new research.

"If this vast ice shelf... was to collapse, it would allow the tributary glaciers behind it to flow faster into the sea. This would then contribute to sea-level rise."

Ice sheets are vast floating beds of ice attached to the Antarctic coast. Hundreds of metres (feet) thick in places, they are extensions of land ice sheets and are fed by glaciers.

Larsen C is the fourth largest ice shelf in the world, covering around 55,000 square kilometres (21,235 square miles), or nearly twice the size of Belgium.

Two far smaller companion shelves on the eastern side of the peninsula -- the tongue that juts from Antarctica towards South America -- have collapsed in the last two decades.

The first, Larsen A, was lost in 1995. In 2002, this was followed by Larsen B -- at 3,250 sq. km, the size of the US state of Rhode Island.

The Larsen B event had no precedent since the end of the last Ice Age, around 12,000 years ago, according to glaciologists.
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The UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change …
The UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reported in 2013 that ice loss from Antarctic …

It tallied shockingly with the discovery that the peninsula is one of the fastest-warming places on the planet.

Temperatures there have risen by around 2.5 degrees Celsius (4.5 degrees Fahrenheit) over the last 50 years, several times the world average.

Published in the journal The Cryosphere, the new study combined data from satellite measurements and eight radar surveys over 15 years, from 1998 to 2012.

- Assault from above and below -

It found Larsen C had lost an average of four metres (13 feet) of ice during this period, and had lowered by an average of one metre at the surface.

Warmer seas are gnawing at it from below, while a warmer atmosphere is causing air to be expelled from the soft, honeycomb surface snow, called firn, the researchers believe.

As a result, the ice on the surface is becoming more compact and dense, which stresses and weakens the shelf's internal structure.

Despite "considerable" uncertainties, there is cause for concern, said the authors.

"A collapse could occur within a century, although maybe sooner and with little warning," the BAS said in a press statement.

"A crack is forming in the ice which could cause it to retreat back further than previously observed."

Because ice shelves float on water, Larsen C's loss would not by itself raise global sea levels.

The problem would come from the glaciers, which would lose the coastal "brake" on their flow towards the sea. More land ice would reach the ocean and melt, adding to its volume.

"When Larsen A and B were lost the glaciers behind them accelerated and they are now contributing a significant fraction of the sea-level rise from the whole of Antarctica," said the BAS' director of science, David Vaughan.

"Larsen C is bigger, and if it were to be lost in the next few decades, then it would actually add to the projections of sea-level rise by 2100."

The UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reported in 2013 that ice loss from Antarctica probably increased from 30 billion tonnes a year in the decade to 2001 to 147 billion tonnes annually in the following decade.

It projected that warmer seas and ice loss would drive up the global mean sea level by between 40 and 63 cm by 2100, but as much as 82 cm at the top end of scenarios for greenhouse-gas emissions.

For coastal-dwellers, the implications of sea-level rise are many, and none is good. They include flooding from storm surges, loss of farmland and salt intrusion into groundwater.
UQ
 
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Here is what I found.

Q https://news.vice.com/article/no-volcanoes-are-not-the-primary-cause-for-the-melting-ice-caps

No, Volcanoes Are Not the Primary Cause For the Melting Ice Caps

By Kayla Ruble
June 11, 2014 |

Climate change skeptics are using a new study about geothermal heating under the world’s ice caps to claim that volcanoes are the real cause of glacial melting, not global warming.

The study was conducted by researchers at the Institute for Geophysics at the University of Texas at Austin (UTIG) and published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. It analyzes geothermal heat below the glaciers in West Antarctica and acknowledges that these sources — which include magma movement and volcanic activity — do contribute to some ice cap melting.

Yet, according to the researchers behind the study and other experts in the field, these findings do not actually provide new insight into why the ice is melting.

“It is true that there are active volcanoes in West Antarctica, and so there may have been some local changes, but in most cases, at most times, volcanoes are not erupting under the ice,” Richard Alley, a geologist at Penn State, told VICE News. “This paper is exciting for modelers and geologists who focus on Antarctica, but it doesn’t tell you anything about why the ice is now thinning.”

How much climate-change denial can the market bear? Read more here.

Instead, UTIG's research provides more detailed mapping areas of the geothermal heat sources under the Thwaites Glacier, which is one of the most vulnerable parts of the rapidly deteriorating West Antarctic Ice Sheet. Using radar detection, the researchers also pinpointed heating levels at a value of two to three times higher than previously thought and which has been used in previous studies.

With this new data, scientists will be able to plug in more accurate heating values into their calculations while studying the collapse of glaciers in the region.

'People have to be careful when drawing hasty conclusions into how much volcanoes can affect glacial melting.'

Dusty Schroeder, the lead author on the UTIG study, told VICE News that this information gives important insight into how hot the earth is underneath the glaciers and thus how it contributes to certain changes.

“Especially in terms of trying to predict the rate of rising sea levels, this is a factor you need to take into account,” Schroeder said.

While this form of geothermal heating does contribute to glacial melting, it does not necessarily mean "climate alarmism has suffered yet another devastating setback."

Climate change will drown world heritage sites. Read more here.

“People have to be careful when drawing hasty conclusions into how much volcanoes can affect glacial melting,” Eric Rignot, an earth science professor at University of California Irvine and a principal scientist at NASA, told VICE News.

Rignot, also the lead author of a study out last month that documented widespread retreat of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, said geothermal heating contributes to a few millimeters of melting annually, compared to rising sea temperatures which can trigger rates of up to 100 meters each year.

'Geothermal heating is not enough by itself to have caused the observed changes.'

“The studies can be confusing individually, you have to put it in a larger perspective by looking at all the studies together,” Rignot said.

According to Schroeder, Rignot’s paper, and another that came out in May, show that warm oceans are currently the main cause of glacier loss at the edge of the ice.

“The fastest glacial changes are happening where the ocean is warmer,” Schroeder said. “Geothermal heating is not enough by itself to have caused the observed changes.”

In response to those who are using his study to deny climate change, Schroeder confirmed that volcanic activity is not the dominant force of ice loss and rising sea levels.

“If you want to understand how the glaciers are changing, you can’t just look at the ice, you can’t just look at the climate system, you can’t just look at the geology, you have to look at the whole picture,” he said.
UQ
 
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You retards measure CO2 and temp levels starting from a cherry picked point of 1000 years ago.

The earth is >4 BILLION years old. Look at the CO2 levels from 50,000 - 10 million years ago. That's what I'm talking about. Co2 levels far higher and the earth far hotter and cooler during those periods. Dumb fucks.
 
somewhat conspicuous by its absence is the explanation of what is causing the melting and how man made co2 is doing it... if is not the volcanoes...

did you see this fudge... it might be cause by the warming waters...
well guess what is also warming the waters

for instance in the southern indian ocean... there are more volcanoes and the atlantic...

ocean temps have been rising since the last ice age.

wouldn't it be nice to read real reporting and real science instead of such slanted crap?

If they actually presented a balanced review of the issues... I might believe them more.






OddTrader said:
Here is what I found.

Q https://news.vice.com/article/no-volcanoes-are-not-the-primary-cause-for-the-melting-ice-caps

No, Volcanoes Are Not the Primary Cause For the Melting Ice Caps

By Kayla Ruble
June 11, 2014 |

Climate change skeptics are using a new study about geothermal heating under the world’s ice caps to claim that volcanoes are the real cause of glacial melting, not global warming.

The study was conducted by researchers at the Institute for Geophysics at the University of Texas at Austin (UTIG) and published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. It analyzes geothermal heat below the glaciers in West Antarctica and acknowledges that these sources — which include magma movement and volcanic activity — do contribute to some ice cap melting.

Yet, according to the researchers behind the study and other experts in the field, these findings do not actually provide new insight into why the ice is melting.

“It is true that there are active volcanoes in West Antarctica, and so there may have been some local changes, but in most cases, at most times, volcanoes are not erupting under the ice,” Richard Alley, a geologist at Penn State, told VICE News. “This paper is exciting for modelers and geologists who focus on Antarctica, but it doesn’t tell you anything about why the ice is now thinning.”

How much climate-change denial can the market bear? Read more here.

Instead, UTIG's research provides more detailed mapping areas of the geothermal heat sources under the Thwaites Glacier, which is one of the most vulnerable parts of the rapidly deteriorating West Antarctic Ice Sheet. Using radar detection, the researchers also pinpointed heating levels at a value of two to three times higher than previously thought and which has been used in previous studies.

With this new data, scientists will be able to plug in more accurate heating values into their calculations while studying the collapse of glaciers in the region.

'People have to be careful when drawing hasty conclusions into how much volcanoes can affect glacial melting.'

Dusty Schroeder, the lead author on the UTIG study, told VICE News that this information gives important insight into how hot the earth is underneath the glaciers and thus how it contributes to certain changes.

“Especially in terms of trying to predict the rate of rising sea levels, this is a factor you need to take into account,” Schroeder said.

While this form of geothermal heating does contribute to glacial melting, it does not necessarily mean "climate alarmism has suffered yet another devastating setback."

Climate change will drown world heritage sites. Read more here.

“People have to be careful when drawing hasty conclusions into how much volcanoes can affect glacial melting,” Eric Rignot, an earth science professor at University of California Irvine and a principal scientist at NASA, told VICE News.

Rignot, also the lead author of a study out last month that documented widespread retreat of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, said geothermal heating contributes to a few millimeters of melting annually, compared to rising sea temperatures which can trigger rates of up to 100 meters each year.

'Geothermal heating is not enough by itself to have caused the observed changes.'

“The studies can be confusing individually, you have to put it in a larger perspective by looking at all the studies together,” Rignot said.

According to Schroeder, Rignot’s paper, and another that came out in May, show that warm oceans are currently the main cause of glacier loss at the edge of the ice.

“The fastest glacial changes are happening where the ocean is warmer,” Schroeder said. “Geothermal heating is not enough by itself to have caused the observed changes.”

In response to those who are using his study to deny climate change, Schroeder confirmed that volcanic activity is not the dominant force of ice loss and rising sea levels.

“If you want to understand how the glaciers are changing, you can’t just look at the ice, you can’t just look at the climate system, you can’t just look at the geology, you have to look at the whole picture,” he said.
UQ
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http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index...-on-climate-change.291493/page-2#post-4122606

Sig said:
Sorry to pick on you Scataphagos, but I want to expose the distinct lack of rigor of those who are for ignoring climate change and your comment is a classic example. Lets talk about volcanos and how much CO2 they emit versus humans. Estimates for all degassing from the earth range from .15 to .26 gigatons of CO2 per year (Gerlach, 1991; Varekamp et al., 1992; Allard, 1992; Sano and Williams, 1996; Marty and Tolstikhin, 1998). Anthropogenic CO2, on the other hand, is around 33 gigatons per year. To simplify that, human caused CO2 emissions are 127 times higher than the highest estimate of all volcano outgassing! Mount St. Helens erupting, for example, produced .01 gigaton of CO2. You would need 3500 Mount St. Helens eruptions, per year, to equal human produced CO2 emissions. That is not human emissions dwarfing man's contribution, quite the other way around. If you disagree with these facts because you have studied the outgassing of volcanoes, for example, then we can have a reasonable discussion between well meaning individuals. If you continue to incorrectly believe and inform everyone around you that volcanic CO2 emissions dwarf human emissions despite not having any facts to support that position and knowing all studies point to the opposite, it really calls into question the validity of all your beliefs. It certainly means we have no reason to listen to anything you (and when I say you I really mean anyone from the blind denial camp) have to say about the matter. Smart well meaning people can disagree about the technical merits of various climate models and the resulting speed and impact of climate change. All of them will agree that we're engaging in a global experiment with uncertain but potentially catastrophic consequences. That is the scientific method, which is very much different from this kind of willful ignorance which is really just incredible.

References
Allard, P., 1992, Global emissions of helium-3 by subaerial volcanism: Geophysical Research Letters, v. 19, n. 14, p. 1479-1481.

Friedlingstein, P., Houghton, R. A., Marland, G., Hackler, J., Boden, T. A., Conway, T. J., Canadell, J. G., Raupach, M. R., Ciais, P., and Le Quéré, C., 2010, Update on CO2 emissions, Nat. Geosci., v. 3, n. 12, p. 811–812, doi:10.1038/ngeo1022.

Gerlach, T.M., 2011, Volcanic versus anthropogenic carbon dioxide: Eos Trans. AGU, v. 92, n. 24, p. 201-202.

Gerlach, T.M., 1991, Present-day CO2 emissions from volcanoes: Eos Trans. AGU, v. 72, n. 23, p. 249 and 254-255.

Gerlach, T.M., McGee, K.A., Elias, T., Sutton, A.J., and Doukas, M.P., 2002, Carbon dioxide emission rate of Kīlauea Volcano: Implications for primary magma and the summit reservoir: Journal of Geophysical Research, v. 107, n. B9, p. ECV3-1 – ECV3-15, 2189, doi: 10.1029/2001JB000407.

Marty, B., and I.N. Tolstikhin, 1998, CO2 fluxes from mid-ocean ridges, arcs and plumes: Chemical Geology, v. 145, p. 233-248.

Sano, Y. and Williams, S.N., 1996, Fluxes of mantle and subducted carbon along convergent plate boundaries: Geophysical Research Letters, v. 23, n. 20, p. 2749-2752.

Varekamp, J.C.R., Kreulen, R., Poorter, R.P.E., and Van Bergen, M.J., 1992, Carbon sources and arc volcanism, with implications for the carbon cycle: Terra Nova, v. 4, p. 363-373.
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fhl said:
Record Antarctic sea ice causing scientists to consider moving their research stations because they can't be reached. Because of too much ice.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/05/record_antarctic_ice_hampers_research_scientists.html

What a scam this whole global warming is. They've got adjusted temps, models that don't work, and failed predictions. And they want us to trust them with our lives.
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Yes, the problem is all the record levels of ice around the world. There is just too much of it. What will we do with all the ice? Oh no....the ice.
 
We've been told ad nauseam by the global warming hoaxers that 350 was the magic number. Once you cross that, the earth is doomed. Doomed, I tell you.

"...the logic of Hansen's paper was clear. Above 350, we are at constant risk of crossing other, even worse, thresholds, the ones that govern the reliability of monsoons, the availability of water from alpine glaciers, the acidification of the ocean, and, perhaps most spectacularly, the very level of the seas."

Countries have dropped out, and are continuing to drop out of these kyoto protocol type demands as the whole thing reveals itself as a farce. Countries are wising up and abandoning the hoax. We're at 400ppm and all the world's got for the mistake of listening to these clowns is hundreds of billions of dollars wasted forever. Down the drain. Money that could have been used to actually do something good.
 
fhl said:
We've been told ad nauseam by the global warming hoaxers that 350 was the magic number. Once you cross that, the earth is doomed. Doomed, I tell you.

"...the logic of Hansen's paper was clear. Above 350, we are at constant risk of crossing other, even worse, thresholds, the ones that govern the reliability of monsoons, the availability of water from alpine glaciers, the acidification of the ocean, and, perhaps most spectacularly, the very level of the seas."

Countries have dropped out, and are continuing to drop out of these kyoto protocol type demands as the whole thing reveals itself as a farce. Countries are wising up and abandoning the hoax. We're at 400ppm and all the world's got for the mistake of listening to these clowns is hundreds of billions of dollars wasted forever. Down the drain. Money that could have been used to actually do something good.
More...

♫ ♪ It's The End Of The World As We Know It … ♪ ♫
 
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