Clemency bid denied for gang killer

You are so right !!

Free room and board, medical, dental, family visits and of course psychological therapy. They can also write books while they are at it. Hey, how about turning religious going muslim or whatever too...ha

And all you need to get this is...murder somebody, actually murder a bunch of people....

ahahaaa


Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Who is mitigating culpability?

I am not saying these people are innocent, I am suggesting that we don't need to have them executed....
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being nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize these days... or whatever this guy was nominated for... it's pretty much a black mark. El Baradei... Arafat... others...
 
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

A fit of rage in which reason is overrulled by emotion is not a moment of reason....

"In a fit of rage" is a condition where the emotions overcome reason.....

You may have been angry, but your reason overcame the emotion.

Your "speculation" that I respect a criminal more than a viction is flat out wrong....

Respecting human life and denying the state the right to take it is for all human beings, criminal and victim.

Oh, and a fetus is not a human life...by my definition.
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My reason overcame my emotion? LOL, I don't think so my friend. My desire to avoid jail/prison/death row did.

Don't even dare to assume you know what went through my head. I believe you're assuming too much here, that I was acting with emotion and then, blip, instantly thinking reasonably. No reasonable thinking, just self preservation. Nothing more than that. I think sometimes it's a trap that a lot of liberals fall into - namely overthinking a situation. Appears to be the case here.

Oh, I missed my point - I meant to say that it appears you respevt the criminal's riught to life more than the victim's. But you knew that. Even though I can't understand the jibberish in the next-to-last para. Looks like you need to rewrite that one.It looks like you're saying that respecting life is criminal. :)

Why would you throw in the abortion thing? Are you baiting me? I know you're a master at it.... :D
 
An LA talk show host called up his Senator and it took 10 minutes to get a Nobel Peace Prize nomination, pretty funny.

I only heard one good thing out of the protests against Tookie's execution. Some Black leaders of the community were actually saying their people were going to cooperate with the LAPD if riots broke out. They were actually going to report the incidents... what is the Black community coming to?
 
Quote from sunnyskies:

being nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize these days... or whatever this guy was nominated for... it's pretty much a black mark. El Baradei... Arafat... others...
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LOL

Carter....

People are nominated by media people and professors of the 'liberal' arts, I believe.

Don't you think that a Prof with an axe to grind or a point to make will nominate him just to do the lecture circuit?
 
Your desire to avoid jail/prison was not a reasoned process? Your ability to control your emotions through reason was not a reasonable process?

The point is that many people who kill (if not all people to some extent) are not capable of acting on reason over emotion. People like this are dangerous, of course, and need to be removed from society to protect society until such time it is determined they are no longer a reasonable danger to society.

Does this removal from society require killing them?

No.

Quote from Haroki:

My reason overcame my emotion? LOL, I don't think so my friend. My desire to avoid jail/prison/death row did.

Don't even dare to assume you know what went through my head. I believe you're assuming too much here, that I was acting with emotion and then, blip, instantly thinking reasonably. No reasonable thinking, just self preservation. Nothing more than that. I think sometimes it's a trap that a lot of liberals fall into - namely overthinking a situation. Appears to be the case here.

Oh, I missed my point - I meant to say that it appears you respevt the criminal's riught to life more than the victim's. But you knew that. Even though I can't understand the jibberish in the next-to-last para. Looks like you need to rewrite that one.It looks like you're saying that respecting life is criminal. :)

Why would you throw in the abortion thing? Are you baiting me? I know you're a master at it.... :D
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ZZZzzz your reasoning is too naive when it comes down to human criminal activities. A characteristic most democrats and liberals enjoy.

I am almost sure that if a Democrat would have president during 911 chances are high we would still be arguing with the Taliban. Sending Jimmy Carter and Jane Fonda for "talks".

UN sanctions against Hussein's Iraq would have been lifted by now....

Great world we would be living in now. Afraid of a bunch of idiots that want to kill themselves in the name of a religion.

Thank God we had somebody with balls in the oval office.

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

A fit of rage in which reason is overrulled by emotion is not a moment of reason....

"In a fit of rage" is a condition where the emotions overcome reason.....

You may have been angry, but your reason overcame the emotion.

Your "speculation" that I respect a criminal more than a viction is flat out wrong....

Respecting human life and denying the state the right to take it is for all human beings, criminal and victim.

Oh, and a fetus is not a human life...by my definition.
More...
 
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Your desire to avoid jail/prison was not a reasoned process? Your ability to control your emotions through reason was not a reasonable process?

The point is that many people who kill (if not all people to some extent) are not capable of acting on reason over emotion. People like this are dangerous, of course, and need to be removed from society to protect society until such time it is determined they are no longer a reasonable danger to society.

Does this removal from society require killing them?

No.
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I'd say no, it wasn't a reasoned process. A reasoned process would have me avoiding getting into a bar fight in the first place. Self preservation (if that is indeed the right description)is a MUCH more primitive response, akin to jerking your hand out of a fire - not much thought goes into THAT. Do you see? I didn't give a crap about the dude, didn't think what I could have taken from him, none of that deeper shit. Just me. Nothing else, and if you've never been there, then I guess we'll always disagree.

And I'll still disagree about the avoiding the death penalty - it still provides a deterrence. You have to look it in scale with other things. Drive drunk, lose your license. Do it again go to jail. Do it a 3rd time and a longer stay. Etc. The escalating penalties will eventually keep SOMEONE off the road, and as such, will keep you and I safer. That's why we have laws, to benefit society.

I give you that the death penalty may not be right in all circumstances. Again, the grey areas rule here. There are no absolutes. but in some cases, such as Tookie's - that mother fucker deserved what he got.

:cool:
 
You have your opinions.

No reason I can see to argue at this point....I disagree with your opinions, that's the end of this story.

Quote from optionpro007:

ZZZzzz your reasoning is too naive when it comes down to human criminal activities. A characteristic most democrats and liberals enjoy.

I am almost sure that if a Democrat would have president during 911 chances are high we would still be arguing with the Taliban. Sending Jimmy Carter and Jane Fonda for "talks".

UN sanctions against Hussein's Iraq would have been lifted by now....

Great world we would be living in now. Afraid of a bunch of idiots that want to kill themselves in the name of a religion.

Thank God we had somebody with balls in the oval office.
More...
 
Your decision not to escalate the situation into violence was a reasoned, thoughtful, aware process.

There are degrees, often people go off initially in a blind rage, then as the situation becomes more escalated and they sense the dangers, their mind kicks in and subdues the primitive instincts.

That's what reason does, it overrides the animalistic, reactive and cretin like behavior that is often instinctual.

Reason may not be the very first response to a given situation, but he civilized man or woman learns when to put the primitive urges back in their proper place.

Good for you.

So, what does all this have to do with capital punishment again?

I am supportive of law and order, of justice and effective punishment....however, in today's society with our present technology and wealth, it is not necessary for the state to kill anyone via a planned execution in order to protect the law abiding citizens of society.


Quote from Haroki:

I'd say no, it wasn't a reasoned process. A reasoned process would have me avoiding getting into a bar fight in the first place. Self preservation (if that is indeed the right description)is a MUCH more primitive response, akin to jerking your hand out of a fire - not much thought goes into THAT. Do you see? I didn't give a crap about the dude, didn't think what I could have taken from him, none of that deeper shit. Just me. Nothing else, and if you've never been there, then I guess we'll always disagree.

And I'll still disagree about the avoiding the death penalty - it still provides a deterrence. You have to look it in scale with other things. Drive drunk, lose your license. Do it again go to jail. Do it a 3rd time and a longer stay. Etc. The escalating penalties will eventually keep SOMEONE off the road, and as such, will keep you and I safer. That's why we have laws, to benefit society.

I give you that the death penalty may not be right in all circumstances. Again, the grey areas rule here. There are no absolutes. but in some cases, such as Tookie's - that mother fucker deserved what he got.

:cool:
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