CL Redux

[GammaTheta]

Schizo,

From what I've seen it would be hard for a day trader to use CL options to hedge positions. I've never really looked into it because I've never day traded CL, but I think the b/a spread would make it pointless in many cases.

If you're flipping contracts multiple times through out the day in many cases what you make on your trade could be wiped out from your hedge and in some cases your hedge will cost you more than you made on your trade. Then you'd have to account for commission costs as well.

It just seems counterproductive for a trader with multiple entries through out the day to also hedge.

 

[schizo]

Quote from Visaria:

Yes, the post before. I said i sold it to riskaddict, but then i checked the time of his post and realised i didn't sell it to him after all

Vis, I'm pretty laid back on just about all things but I want to emphasize (yet again) that I created some very specific rules for this thread, which can be found on page 1, and I intend to enforce them. I trust that you will also follow these rules and will let the matter rest.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[austinp]

Quote from NoDoji:

As for CL, I found that trading enough intraday swings back and forth often produces as much profit as catching the right side of a swing trade for a day or two. As often as I've had those "If I'd shorted there and held until now" dreams, I doubt I'll ever swing trade this thing.

imo a skilled trader who has firm control of her/his emotions and discipline can expect to make +$500 to +$1,000 per CL contract more days than not. Keep the losses smaller and wins taller. Add size. Current volatility is ok but hardly necessary... it was equally if not more possible to accomplish same goals in much quieter CL tapes than now.

CL will fill ten contracts easily as one. A properly funded account turning five-lots or ten-lots does not need to make a bazillion cents every day, does not need to bang the tape every waking moment and does not need to hold thru painful swings for days.

Just take the day-trade money and run

 

[schizo]

Nevertheless options is a fascinating, albeit convoluted, subject that I wish to learn in greater detail. I appreciate your input and hope to hear more from you in the future.

Quote from GammaTheta:

Schizo,

From what I've seen it would be hard for a day trader to use CL options to hedge positions. I've never really looked into it because I've never day traded CL, but I think the b/a spread would make it pointless in many cases.

If you're flipping contracts multiple times through out the day in many cases what you make on your trade could be wiped out from your hedge and in some cases your hedge will cost you more than you made on your trade. Then you'd have to account for commission costs as well.

It just seems counterproductive for a trader with multiple entries through out the day to also hedge.

 

[zxd]

So now we crossed below the 20-day MA, I think technically we're looking bearish, could go to 90 but at that point fundamentals have to remind us of the spring-summer driving season in combination with some turomoil in the middle east and possible increased imports of oil from Japan in the mid-term will push us all back up.

Any thoughts?

Looking to swing long when the opportunity arises.

 

[schizo]

Quote from zxd:

Any thoughts?

Don't you love how everything lines up?

 

[Visaria]

Quote from Visaria:

Quote from startraitor:

add 99.19


I must have been the one who sold it to you!

Stop at 35

add: sold it just now, so it wasn't me.

Sorry, it was startraitor who i thought i had sold it to, not riskaddict.

I sold it at 99.19, stop at 99.35 exited at 98.2.

Hope this has cleared the matter up. Apologies for any confusion.

regards

vis

 

[BCE]

Quote from NoDoji:

I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm a solid day trader and a nervous swing trader (I often swing trade stocks in the IRA accounts). I occasionally hedge my swing positions with options which allows me to hold through a little heat and give the trade time to do its thing, but if it doesn't work out, I can exit close to b/e thanks to the premium I got.

As for CL, I found that trading enough intraday swings back and forth often produces as much profit as catching the right side of a swing trade for a day or two. As often as I've had those "If I'd shorted there and held until now" dreams, I doubt I'll ever swing trade this thing.

I think the key to effective swing trading is obviously being on the right side of the trade to begin with in a clearly defined trend. And if there isn't a clearly defined trend I would just as soon day trade. Or you can obviously do both even in a well defined trend as nothing goes straight up or down.

ADD It's hard identifying a trend right now with an instrument like CL as it's so affected by whatever the latest news cycle is and there are many very influential cross currents.

 

[BCE]

Quote from InvestVision:

I am really concerned and unhappy about the Japan govt. response. My heart beaks looking at Japanese near these plants.

- Right from beginning the govt. attitude is very pride driven attitude , there is no official acceptance of 'rescue teams' and other help from dozens and dozens of govt. around the world .

- this is NOT the time to think accepting other world less powerful countries ( economically ) is considered weakness.

- they should accept ( and ask ) all the air force from US , EU in a big way and keep all the planes standby near all these Nuclear reactors and start evacuating these people this morning when it reached LEVEL 6 ...

- they should keep big bus/rail and all major Japan transport standby in those 20 mile radius

- what happens if every thing is allright , they can return back after 2 days. what you lose some pride ( govt. ) for panicking.

- what happens if worst happens , you put ten of thousands of people with their few years of life left and ready for death with radiation.

- if this is US , that what must have happened , that is the best part of US , where they don't mind losing PRIDE for safety ...

- Hope at least now Japan govt. put safety of their people ahead of their pride.

I feel the company and government officials involved in these situations are frequently unwilling to tell it like it is and take appropriate measures in dealing with the actual situation as it really is, not some sanitized version they've cooked up. There was a nuclear expert on the radio today who was talking about the Japanese government telling people in the homes that I think were 20-30 kilometers away from the plant to just stay indoors, close your windows, and everything will be okay. He was comparing this to the "duck and cover" nonsense that the government here told everyone over the course of decades. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_cover

And I'm afraid we are getting the same message now in the US. The White House and members of Congress are telling everyone that the nuclear power plants here are safe. I'm sure the Japanese government told the Japanese people that their power plants were safe too and would hold up to any earthquake or tsunami. And look what has happened.

ADD The Atomic Cafe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOUtZOqgSG8

 

[BCE]

A bit discouraged as I couldn't trade in the middle of the day and it looks like I missed some relatively easy money. Oh, well. There are more opportunities coming right up. The 97.20-30 or so longs were so obvious as was the 99.20-40 short earlier.