CL Redux

Fair enough.


Shorted at 80.92

SL at 81.30

PT at 80.50



Also, this is my last short, either way it works out. Its clear this is going to break out sooner rather than later. I will wait for that to happen and hopefully get short near resistance at the previous high.

I don't understand the exact mechanics of what is going on, but the desire to push this higher in the face of a lot of decently bad news is pretty telling.
 
I shorted @ 81.05 and covered @ 81.01. Gotta learn to let winners run esp on such a strong setup. That's why I'm not trading live yet. If I cut winners off like that all the time, one loss wipes out my gains

:confused: :confused:
 
PM from xxx:

Hi schiz,

I am really killing it sim trading CL, but I'm not very pleased with my trade management. If I place a stop too close, I lose money needlessly, so I now place a very distant stop, but I'm afraid one loss will wipe out everything because I cut all my winners way too short.

I've also tried 2-pronged average down and that's worked every time, but I'm afraid with CL that could be a very bad habit.

Do you have any tips for me?
Are you daytrading or swing trading? It appears to me that you're a daytrader. Before the day begins, do you have the anticipated HOD and LOD? As the day progresses, are you measuring the momentum as the two extremes are being targeted? When you fade, how far are you away from HOD or LOD and, more importantly, are you fading against a rising momentum or a falling momentum?

My philosophy is that stops are irrelevant as long as your entries are perfect. well, easier said than done. One of the biggest pitfalls that I see among traders (myself included at times) is that they enter in the no man's land. Here, the key attribute to their eventual loss is impatience. Before you plunge right in, you must know how far the entry point is from the next major pivot (S/R, trendline, etc). If it's too far from them pivots, don't jump in. Rather wait for the price to retest the pivot. You can then place the stop a few ticks on the other side of the pivot. Below is a chart of today's price action. Note that this is a hindsight analysis but this should be the course of action you should have envisaged with stops placed against those lines you see on the chart.

Having said that, when you're wrong, you're wrong. There's no "woulda, shoulda, coulda". Just admit it and move on.

attachment.php
 

Attachments

Quote from schizo:

attachment.php

Of course 'tis I asked schiz this question, I who cuts all my winners short!

"I shorted here earlier. Good or Bad?" Not bad IMHO. Once just about 50% of that previous bar retraced leaving a lower high after three strong pushes up. I'd say that's a good short and should be held until at least a test of previous support (80.65-80.70 zone).

#1 "Short?" Yes, once the second shooting star doji is printed, short and hold until next support is reached (80.55-80.60). Covering half when all that support is established a bit higher is not a bad idea.

"Why would I not short here?" Because a) CL is strong today, b) three pushes down from the HOD after a strong run up that doesn't retrace more than 50% (it didn't) often indicates a continuation move up, c) buyers stepped right in and made earlier breakout resistance a support zone. The downtrend line indicates a potential short, but these pushes down are shallow and on low volume, so wait for test of previous resistance first, which then violates the short signal.

#3 "Cover or long?" I'd be stopped out on the pivot, trailing a stop, if I'd been in that trade.

#4 "Short on the retest?" I jumped on this one the moment price tried to continue and dipped a couple ticks, leaving that double top. This is the one where I was so close to the top that there was no reason not to just leave my initial stop in place.

#5 "Cover or long?" Yeah that's where I shoulda covered. Why? Because the run up to the 81.08 zone broke previous resistance to get there and so we should now expect a test of the next highest support level (80.65 zone), and then long if that holds up.

Isn't that all so easy when the prices aren't jumping around? :D
 
Based on what happened today, now you need to whip out a battle plan for tomorrow. First look at the daily chart and come up with two sets of plan: 1) continuation rally; 2) reversal.

Within each of those battle plans, predict where the most likely HOD and LOD will occur. Hint: Don't just spit out any number. They must conform to previous pivots.

Second, determine how much head wind (eg. momentum) is still left to the current rally. Lastly, gauge how much time is still left to the ongoing rally by utilizing the "measured move" technique. This is akin to card counting in blackjack. See the chart below.

Uh-oh, I revealed way too much of my secret recipe. :eek:

attachment.php
:eek:
 

Attachments

If you dont mind....

My analysis:

Your good or bad short, I say good because I most likely would have taken that short as well at the close of that bar. We have a big move up, a pullback, a big wacky up bar, then a big down bar that completely erased gains of the big up bar. That big down thrust after the big wacky up bar would have me thinking the big up bar was just people trying to run some stops and the pullback would likely continue. Hard to say wheter or not I would have gotten any profit since price bounced a dime or so into the down move. After the up first up bar of the bottom of that move lower, I likely would have exited when the next bar was making its higher high. A small winner/scratch/small loser is irrevelant. I would still consider that entry good because it fits my criteria of a high probablity set up. One thing I can say is I wouldnt have taken a big loss on that trade. Initial stop would be a tick or two above that swing high, but since it was a fade that started going in my direction I would have tightend it up very soon. I never expose myself to too much risk when fading such a powerful move.

Now..

1. We got a little bounce, a spinning top showing some indecision followed by a bar that closed very close to its lows. Mostly likely I would have went short on the next bar, when it looked like it was not going to even come close to the previous bar's high. Since it was fading that big earlier move up I honestly would have only had 1 lot short so after two bars with no new low I would have exited the trade. No way would I have sat through all that sideways chop; the area you would be considering covering half your position.

Im going to combine your 2 and 3 since I would have been flat at that point.

2-3. Your "Cover or long" point. We have a bullish looking hammer, which would have gotten my attention, followed by another up bar closing well off its lows. I very well may have bought on the close of that second bar. The fact that price was so close to that down trendline may have kept my finger off the mouse. The next bar had that very small range, if I wasnt long at that point I wouldnt have gotten long on that bar. Why not short there? I never enter a position when price hits what I perceive to be a key reference area. I always wait for some confirmation. Seeing the next bar break through that trendline with some real conviction would have triggered a buy from me (if I hadnt been agressive earlier in that move and already been long). So I may have had a damn nice entry and caught most of that move, or I may have had a worse entry. Either way when price broke through that horizontal resistance area my stop would have been close behind in case it didnt continue higher, and I would have been stopped out most likely a few ticks above that resistance line you have. I think of trendlines/S-R lines as zones, not 1 pixels discrete spots, so just because price breaks through I dont assume its going to automatically continue, hence my stop placement.

4. Short on re-test? Absolutely. After the big red bar we have a bullish looking hammer, but it has a lower high and lower low. That would be my attention getter. The next bar also had a lower high and closed on lows. I would have entered short on the close of that bar.

5. Cover or long? I would have been stopped out of my short. That was a nice big candle, whenever Im up .20 or so I start trailing my stop pretty close. That next big up bar would have stopped me out, hard to say exactly where since this is all hindsight, but honestly if I took that trade I would have most likely pulled a quarter or so out of that move.

Now Im going to read NoDojis response. Last time her and I commented on the same chart our replies were damn near identical :D

*EDIT I spent much of the day driving, so this was the first chart Ive looked at. When I typed all that up I wasnt thinking about today being an inventory report day or any other news. Just looking at price action.
 
Anyone out there, feel free to rip my price action analysis or trade management methods apart. If you see any blaring mistakes let me know. Thats basically the way I view price action of any market, and I damn well admit I still have much to learn.
 
This is very interesting and pretty inspiring. Let's continue this tomorrow. Following the close of the session, I will post a chart with annotations like the one I posted above and I would like you to respond in the same manner. I didn't think much about it at the time but this might actually get us somewhere.
 
Back
Top