Civil discourse on gun control
- Thread starter Tsing Tao
- Start date
As you know, in my opinion, Canadian gun law is compatible with Heller. But then I am somewhat of an expert on Heller having read it thoroughly and studied it in detail, and having also Read Justice Stevens opinion as well. I have pointed out the Section of Heller (III, pg 54) that would be most applicable to deciding whether your point is correct, but as yet have no germane responses from the "gun lobby."
Other parts of Heller are also applicable here, for example the District of Columbia gun law at the Time Heller was brought. Anyone wondering whether Heller would prevent implementation of Canadian gun laws in the U.S. would want to be fully appraised of D.C.'s former gun laws and any differences between those and Canadian Gun Laws. Also you'd want to know what the Court said about D.Cs gun laws, both directly and indirectly and especially whether the Court held that the Second Amendment right was an all encompassing and unfettered right. If not unfettered, what did the Court say about the kinds of restrictions that the government may impose on the second Amendment Right, or was the Court silent on that point?
My suggestion to all of you is to go back and read Heller, but this time very carefully, and in its entirety. And then make written notes you can refer to. Then come back to this forum, and you'll be equipped to contribute something beyond NRA propaganda. .
Happy to entertain your knowledgeable discussion.
I don't know about "lefties", but I have been spending time in Canada. It is VERY "diverse" , in fact it is a paradise for those who enjoy "diversity," as you put it. Fly up to Toronto and go for a rid on their wonderful mass transit system. Then come back and report on Diversity. You might also take note, Mr. Diversity, of Canada's 100% more official languages than the U.S! Considering all the immigrants Canada welcomes, one wonders why murder and rape isn't rampant there. I guess we should ask Mr. Trump that question? Apparently the rest of the world is sending all their murderers and rapists to the U.S.; none to Canada.
Because we can trust that an anonymous poster on a trading website is being truthful, fair and accurate with their notes more so than the NRA's transparent, publicly published articles by legal scholars?
I don't know about "lefties", but I have been spending time in Canada. It is VERY "diverse" , in fact it is a paradise for those who enjoy "diversity," as you put it. Fly up to Toronto and go for a rid on their wonderful mass transit system. Then come back and report on Diversity. You might also take note, Mr. Diversity, of Canada's 100% more official languages than the U.S! Considering all the immigrants Canada welcomes, one wonders why murder and rape isn't rampant there. I guess we should ask Mr. Trump that question? Apparently the rest of the world is sending all their murderers and rapists to the U.S.; none to Canada.
Well I will agree with you on the following:
- Toronto is very diverse.
- Toronto has an excellent mass transit system when compared to U.S. cities.
- Canada may have two official languages, but most people outside of Quebec only speak one of the two.
- Canada is taking in many of the immigrants with good educations & skills who failed to get into the U.S. under the H1-B lottery system.
- Toronto has low crime for a major city. However one needs to consider the immigrants they take in are educated and skilled. Canada is very strict on illegal immigrants. Take a look at the large numbers of people they deny entry to at Toronto's Pearson airport and their regular sweeps to remove illegal immigrants in the city. So in summary the U.S. is taking in the illegal immigrants who rape and murder -- and Canada is very strict about removing them.
I prefer Canada's approach to immigration. At the same time, the U.S. needs to "man up" to the problems it has created for itself by exploiting cheap labor and looking the other way when it came to enforcement. We need new immigration law. There is more than one reason we don't get it from our Congress. Under Obama enforcement and deportations were greatly stepped up. That hasn't changed much under Trump -- it's mostly lip service under Trump, the man who was going to build an expensive, unnecessary wall, and "get Mexico to Pay for it!" To appease his base, who he has convinced are losing jobs to immigrants, Trump is making scapegoats out of immigrants, just as Goebbels successfully made scapegoats out of Jews, but far more successfully in depression ravaged Germany. Trump, the demagogue whose ignorance in encyclopedic, is doing whatever he can to instill fear among his followers. He told his base he would deport the undocumented; he told the DACA young adults he would protect them. He lied to both his base and to those affected by DACA.
For all practical purposes those falling under DACA are just as American as you or I, they serve in our armed forces and have never known any other country. For political reasons, Trump is attempting to make scapegoats out of innocents. It is unconscionable. The time to fix U.S. immigration law is now. It is never acceptable in any society to punish the innocent. As an unfortunate consequence, some that are guilty will necessarily go unpunished. Clocks only move in one direction. It is not possible to correct some mistakes made in the past without being inhumane. We must not be in humane. *
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*some want to deport DACA children and adults. If deported, they will not be sent to gas chambers as about half the jews we turned away in WWII were, but they will learn to hate the country that turned its back on them, uprooted them from their homes, their friends, their schools and their jobs. As a nation let's not commit yet another horribly inhumane act. There has been far too many such acts in the past.
Keep in mind that Canada's approach to immigration mirrors Trump's proposed policies exactly.
- Skills-based immigration
- No chain migration. Parents, children only (and grandparents in some situations).
- Strong illegal immigrant enforcement.
No problem going forward. Not only could the U.S. benefit from adopting Canada's gun laws, but we could adopt their immigration laws as well. Why not just sell ourselves to Canada. I like hockey much better than football. (I think the problem would be that Canada wouldn't want the Deep South. And who could blame them?
About 1977 I was in Toronto for the first time. It was a hot summer day, and I went into a bar and ordered a beer. The server asked me where i was from. I proceeded to tell her what a wonderful, safe, international and cosmopolitan city I thought Toronto was. I told her how I'd walked alone to my hotel late the previous night and felt perfectly safe. "Oh," she says, "Its getting dangerous, we had a murder last year!"
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