Citadel Securities, Virtu Form Crypto Plan With Fidelity, Schwab

Its not such much about valuing bitcoin @deaddog , but more so about what to do when people realize that the arbitrary dollars are the problem. The coming energy crisis and food crisis cannot be solved by the government since all they know how to do is print. They clearly can't print food and energy, and if they try and print more money to hand out to everyone so they can buy food and energy, what will this do to the prices of the food and energy? Do you think the balance sheet expansions of central banks can grow much bigger? Surely you must at least realize a problem is coming. How do you think this will be solved if you don't see the value in bitcoin at all? Will we go back to gold? Surely you don't think more printing will work, do you?
If we have an energy and food crisis, how does bitcoin help?
 
If we have an energy and food crisis, how does bitcoin help?
And how does government printing help? Then when everyone figures out part of the reason why we are in this problem, they will not trust the government again to go back to the old system. You cannot have governments magically printing up money and have full control over the monetary system while trying to convince everyone that they know what they are doing.

The church at one point had a strong hold on telling people what they can and cannot do. Luckily many are now unencumbered by this logic and burden. When people realize they cannot trust the government to be the heads of monetary policy, it will be game over for fiat currencies.

Then the market can get to work on providing goods and services, and a stable food and energy supply will grow out of this at whatever price the market sets.
 
Exactly. I didn't see anything in the book that led me to believe that bitcoin will continue to grow. Fluctuate off course, I might even trade it, but I have no way of valuing it except that it should probably increase in value if we can find a greater fool.
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greater fool? There's a market for it, you do not need to find a greater fool. The way you make it sound, there's no bid for BTC which trades in many exchanges around the world, and 24 hour volume is over $35 Billion

greater fool is for something like an overpriced Toronto real estate, $5M art piece, $100K watch, $200K classic car, these items are not liquid and have no standing bid 24/7

You read the book, but it seems to me a simple way to calculate the value of Bitcoin is to compare to another first layer money, like gold, which has a $10 Trillion market cap and would put the price of Bitcoin at $500K each

Not even considering that Bitcoin is much better than gold at the current adoption, BTC can be used as collateral for loans, for mortgage to buy a house, as a medium of exchange to buy coffee, computer, gucci, watches, house, cars, jewelry and many others, plus Bitcoin can be transferred across the world with ease, at less than $1 cost


You mentioned that in my lifetime my dollar has lost 50% of it's value. Didn't bitcoin lose 50% of its value since November.

You don't understand the difference between Canadian $ losing 50% of its value and Bitcoin price volatility in the short term losing 50% in 6 months?

Let me explain it to you, your Canadian $ will never regain that value lost and I guarantee you that it will continue to lose value every year

Bitcoin will surpass the ATH price of $69K in the next 2.5 years and my confidence on that is based on the fact that you cannot show me when BTC was lower in $ price 3 years prior
 
Bitcoin will surpass the ATH price of $69K in the next 2.5 years and my confidence on that is based on the fact that you cannot show me when BTC was lower in $ price 3 years prior
Doesn't sound like you are familiar with the past performance disclaimer.

I've got things going on I'll respond to the other points tomorrow.
 
greater fool is for something like an overpriced Toronto real estate, $5M art piece, $100K watch, $200K classic car, these items are not liquid and have no standing bid 24/7

Are these good examples?
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greater fool? There's a market for it, you do not need to find a greater fool. The way you make it sound, there's no bid for BTC which trades in many exchanges around the world, and 24 hour volume is over $35 Billion
There is a market. That's where you go to find your greater fool. You want to find someone who will pay you more for your bitcoin than you paid for it.

Here's where I have trouble valuing bitcoin. The only reason I would buy bitcoin is because it is going to increase in value. The reason it will increase in value is because it is rare and can be used as a medium of exchange.

What is bitcoin? It's software. Can software have a glitch? No never happen. Can software be hacked? No never happen. Can another software be developed that could mine private keys? No never happen.

At any rate John I see it as a trading opportunity, not as an investment. If it takes off I'll jump on the bandwagon. I'm under the impression that I'm smart enough to jump off before the next downturn. But first I has to start to trend upward.
 
And how does government printing help? Then when everyone figures out part of the reason why we are in this problem, they will not trust the government again to go back to the old system. You cannot have governments magically printing up money and have full control over the monetary system while trying to convince everyone that they know what they are doing.

The church at one point had a strong hold on telling people what they can and cannot do. Luckily many are now unencumbered by this logic and burden. When people realize they cannot trust the government to be the heads of monetary policy, it will be game over for fiat currencies.

Then the market can get to work on providing goods and services, and a stable food and energy supply will grow out of this at whatever price the market sets.

That doesn't answer the question of how bitcoin will solve the food and energy shortages.

As for people trusting the government...... What's the first thing you hear when something goes wrong? The government should do something about that. The first time there is a problem with bitcoin there will be a cry for regulation.

Even if bitcoin is adopted as the reserve currency worldwide. (I think that's the plan) Do you expect governments to spend less than they take in in taxes. I don't think bitcoin will solve that problem.
 
There is a market. That's where you go to find your greater fool. You want to find someone who will pay you more for your bitcoin than you paid for it.

Here's where I have trouble valuing bitcoin. The only reason I would buy bitcoin is because it is going to increase in value. The reason it will increase in value is because it is rare and can be used as a medium of exchange.

What is bitcoin? It's software. Can software have a glitch? No never happen. Can software be hacked? No never happen. Can another software be developed that could mine private keys? No never happen.

At any rate John I see it as a trading opportunity, not as an investment. If it takes off I'll jump on the bandwagon. I'm under the impression that I'm smart enough to jump off before the next downturn. But first I has to start to trend upward.

I take (strong) exception to the "greater fool" on a highly liquid BTC market that trades 24/7/365 and has more liquidity than most stocks that only trade 5 days excluding holidays

The main value of BTC is in the markets, it's valued by the counterparties that accept it when they buy/trade, by the counterparties that accept it as collateral and take risks of holding, and by the counterparties that accept it as payment for goods and services sans payment processors (a rare class among merchants)

However, your other points are fair and I do take your consideration of your comments on the book on previous posts to be fair, as well

The good news about this latest discussion we have on the value of BTC is that it will be settled within 2.5 years, when BTC reaches or fails to reach $70K

As of right now, I cannot argue with the market that says BTC is down 50% from 6 months ago and I'm at a disadvantage due to market conditions of a crypto winter (bear market), but I expect before 2.5 years from now that BTC will surpass $70K
 
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Are these good examples?

Yes, BAYC NFT's or many NFT's are a good example of the greater fool theory as they are collectibles like art pieces

They are not liquid, but as I mentioned to you before, there are multiple bots that provide 10-15% bid below price floors, so in the NFT market place, BAYC is rare for having this standing bid and an exit liquidity for hodlers to utilize
 
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