Chronicles of an Idiot

I knew as soon as I posted that, that someone would ask what it is. I don't know if I should divulge something I paid $3000 to learn....

The "shoulder" is on the stochastic itself. Once it makes a little shoulder like this, without actually heading back up, then take the trade when it turns back down. See image for the two 6-pt trades today.
 

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Quote from VisionTrader:



You're right the signal was not there on a 3M chart. You're no idiot I see.:p
More...

But the signal WAS there on the 1-min chart for the MACD. Are
you all trading 3-min charts AND 1-min charts? Or just the 3-min
chart and ignoring the 1-min chart?...
 
Quote from trader416:

I knew as soon as I posted that, that someone would ask what it is. I don't know if I should divulge something I paid $3000 to learn....

The "shoulder" is on the stochastic itself. Once it makes a little shoulder like this, without actually heading back up, then take the trade when it turns back down. See image for the two 6-pt trades today.
More...

Well damn. I call these elbows. As far as I know, no one has proprietary rights to our shoulders and elbows. This is really interesting. Thanks.
 
Quote from version77:



But the signal WAS there on the 1-min chart for the MACD. Are
you all trading 3-min charts AND 1-min charts? Or just the 3-min
chart and ignoring the 1-min chart?...
More...

I am trading from the 1M chart. Use your longer time frames to help you make decisions. When both give you a good signal. Bingo.
 
version77, you're right, you could have shorted at 15:58 for 2-pts on the 1-min chart divergence signal.

Just to expand on the 1-min versus the 3-min issue, the TIMES method (of which VisionTrader's method is "similar" to) is based on the 1-min chart, with a 2-pt profit target and 2-pt stop loss. "Breakout" suggested that a 3:1 ratio of profit/loss should be the objective, but on a 1-min chart, this is hard to do. Someone (I forget who) suggested the 3:1 objective using a 3-min chart (ie. 2-pt stop, 6-pt target). So the 1-min is still the primary chart, but the 3-min is looking good too.

VisioniTrader, you said: "Well damn. I call these elbows. As far as I know, no one has proprietary rights to our shoulders and elbows. This is really interesting."

That's one thing that bugged me about paying for the TIMES method. Firstly, they showed most of their signals during the free public demo, and implied that there was much more to come (there wasn't much more). Secondly, these are all basically well known entry methods that they packaged as if it was real special. Thirdly, they withhold the indicator settings to almost force you to sign up with FutureSource so they can make money monthly from the extra software fee.

By the way, I tried FutureSource for a while side-by-side with TS on eSignal, and during my trial the FutureSource data was at times 2 full minutes behind - and on a 1-minute system, that's a killer !

So all in all, I don't feel badly divulging some of their "secrets".
 
I agree that on the 1-min chart it's hard to get a 3:1 profit/loss
ratio. I also think it is hard to get 6 points no matter what time
frame you are in. It only happens a few times a day.

So did you have to sign up with FutureSource to get the indicator
settings? For 3K you would think you would get them right then.
And FutureSource was 2-min behind? That's pretty far off...

Thanks for the "shoulder" tip. Hopefully you won't get into some
kind of trouble for divulging some of their "secrets"?...
 
Quote from trader416:

version77, you're right, you could have shorted at 15:58 for 2-pts on the 1-min chart divergence signal.

Just to expand on the 1-min versus the 3-min issue, the TIMES method (of which VisionTrader's method is "similar" to) is based on the 1-min chart, with a 2-pt profit target and 2-pt stop loss. "Breakout" suggested that a 3:1 ratio of profit/loss should be the objective, but on a 1-min chart, this is hard to do. Someone (I forget who) suggested the 3:1 objective using a 3-min chart (ie. 2-pt stop, 6-pt target). So the 1-min is still the primary chart, but the 3-min is looking good too.

VisioniTrader, you said: "Well damn. I call these elbows. As far as I know, no one has proprietary rights to our shoulders and elbows. This is really interesting."

That's one thing that bugged me about paying for the TIMES method. Firstly, they showed most of their signals during the free public demo, and implied that there was much more to come (there wasn't much more). Secondly, these are all basically well known entry methods that they packaged as if it was real special. Thirdly, they withhold the indicator settings to almost force you to sign up with FutureSource so they can make money monthly from the extra software fee.

By the way, I tried FutureSource for a while side-by-side with TS on eSignal, and during my trial the FutureSource data was at times 2 full minutes behind - and on a 1-minute system, that's a killer !

So all in all, I don't feel badly divulging some of their "secrets".
More...

Hey, I'm still here....raining.

First, you have to tip your hat to Afshin(sp). He is a good business man, with a good system and I respect the whole organization. They are endorsed by CBOT and this is not something to take lightly.

Now with that said, he is a marketer and a good one it appears. He offers that on-going support and help which many need. You know the question that bugged me and made me do something similar on my own is...

If this is such a great method, why do him and old Roger bother to run this company. I would just take my stack bet it on the system. They would both be rich. Could easliy make several thousand per day. Guess they have lots of students joining per day and no overhead at their business.

Anyway, enough of that.

The "type" of system they use is not unique or proprietary. I guess their settings are proprietary. Sure they have good legal counsel to advise. Look in TradeStation World under the 3rd party tab and you will see systems there for $199. What is unique and probably valuable to many is their support and nuturing. That's great just not for me.

I do want to thank them for getting me interested in the divergence method of trading and realizing I need less information to deal with rather than more to analyze.

After all, I am an Idiot.

I hope you share some with us. Nothing proprietary mind you. But if you have been trading this way, I would like to hear some of your thoughts.

Later.
 
As far as I'm concerned, nothing I've said is proprietary, because it was all said in their free public demo at a trade show. You didn't even have to pay for what I've told you.

Yes, version77, about 6 points coming along alot less often, but that's part of the beauty. Following a 3-min is much easier on the nerves, and requires only 1/3 the success rate that the 1-min requires.
 
A robust system should not show material sensitivity for a fairly broad range of parameter settings. It might be fun to try to duplicate an expensive commercial system, but I seriously doubt that indicator settings are critical.
 
any stats on how robust this is? I saw earlier a post about 70% wins, anyone else back this up?

Vision Trader, thanks for a great thread, that for some reason is not getting bashed by any whiners.

Keep up the good work!
 
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