Christians On Trial For Their Faith

studentofthemarkets said:
But you DIDN'T have a relationship with God. Because if you did, then you couldn't turn your back on Him, it would be like denying the existence of a family member. That's how I know that you didn't actually come into a relationship with God. Did God make Himself known to you? He has to me and to many others. This is not based on my feelings.

There are many who believe the Bible, believe in the existence of Jesus, believe they have Him as their God...yet have not yet come into a personal relationship with Jesus based on repentance and Him saving them.

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19
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There is a type of belief in Jesus that is NOT saving faith.

And the only way to really know if it IS saving faith is if one has been sealed by the Holy Spirit, as it says here:

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13
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How does one know, if they have come to Jesus for salvation, that they now have the Holy Spirit?

And because we are his children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, prompting us to call out, “Abba, Father.” Galatians 4:6

My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. John 10:27

The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him. John 14:21​

So, you see, I am not imagining that this is what I have experienced, the Bible has said that this is how it will be. God will make Himself known to one who has become His own.

I'm writing this so that you might pause in the bitterness you've expressed to consider that instead of rejecting everything, to consider that instead of throwing out the that has resulted from your lack of experiencing a genuine relationship with God, and from the hurts you experienced from people. It sounds like the people at your previous churches were not living as the Bible instructs, since Jesus commanded His followers to love others and from what you have shared. I don't see anything from your experience of genuine love for others as being a strong factor in your church experience.

So, maybe, at some point down the road, you will consider that since you never belonged to God in the first place, there are some people who are telling you that a real relationship is still something that you can have too.

If it were me in your shoes, knowing that if you get this wrong, your whole eternity is going to be ....., I would delve into studying the book of Hebrews, (the rest of the New Testament too) and just have an open mind, be willing to acknowledge your sin and that Jesus is God and to call on Him for salvation, if you come to see that He is. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. If you want to try to get faith because you don't have any, then take the words of Jesus and what He did, and really ponder on them, because that is how faith will come.

From my own experience, I sometimes wonder what the difference is between a thought in my mind and faith. I can have lots of thoughts going through my mind and wonder what it is that is actually faith. And from my experience, I can "see" my own faith when I've spent time in the Bible, pondering over some aspect of Jesus and what He has done, and then when I turn my heart to God, talk to Him about it, such as I mentioned in another post somewhere, when reading the passages on Jesus being a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek, and especially, when seeing that this was a promise made hundreds of years before Jesus came, and it was fulfilled in Jesus, then in expressing this back to God, I see my thankfulness as evidence of faith. I pray, "Lord, thank you that you are my Priest forever, the One who not only became the sacrifice for my sins, but my High Priest, my mediator between me and God, so that my sins have been cleansed through You, and this will always be true." That is a prayer that is said from faith. Faith from a person that has been saved and hopes that you and others will also come to a place of faith.

I really don't like to be argumentative. Debating is kind of fun, but only if done respectfully. I'm not sure if I'll be taking part in any more of this discussion.
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Do you seriously think it possible I'm going to consult the bible?
Imo, it's largely just a crock of shit.

But, harking back a tad, there are fine Christians, there is good that the church performs, the church as an institution has made remarkable achievments, we have lots to thank the church for, but there is also the flip side, it's a man made organisation with human fraility. It may be led by God, but not led by God exclusively, if the Church is led by God, so is everyone else, our success or failure though is largely up to us and by chance, luck, randomness, assistance from others, etc.
 
themickey said:
Do you seriously think it possible I'm going to consult the bible?
Imo, it's largely just a crock of shit.

But, harking back a tad, there are fine Christians, there is good that the church performs, the church as an institution has made remarkable achievments, we have lots to thank the church for, but there is also the flip side, it's a man made organisation with human fraility. It may be led by God, but not led by God exclusively, if the Church is led by God, so is everyone else, our success or failure though is largely up to us and by chance, luck, randomness etc.
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So, I really, really want to know how you explain away all the Old Testament prophecies (you must know them) that were fulfilled by Jesus.
That's the strongest evidence I know of for validating the Bible unbiasedly.
I'm sure you have thought it through and will have an answer. I just would like, very much, to know what your explanation is of it.:)
 
studentofthemarkets said:
So, I really, really want to know how you explain away all the Old Testament prophecies (you must know them) that were fulfilled by Jesus.
That's the strongest evidence I know of for validating the Bible unbiasedly.
I'm sure you have thought it through and will have an answer, I just would like, very much, to know what your explanation is of it.:)
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Like Uri Geller who bends spoons.
Sleight of hand.
I could write a history book and change history too.
Stop being so naive.
 
themickey said:
Like Uri Geller who bends spoons.
Sleight of hand.
I could write a history book and change history too.
Stop being so naive.
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That is definitely not a factual based argument. You could not have written a history book spanning over a thousand years and have the prophecies fulfilled hundreds of years into the future, concerning one single person. The dead sea scrolls prove without a doubt that the prophecies were written well before Jesus came. I really think that is someone honestly studies this out, that there is enough evidence of God's hand, to lead one to faith.

But thanks, very much, for answering my question, because it's hard for me to think I see something so clearly that unbelievers should be able to see it too, yet I can't find one unbeliever that agrees with me!

BTW, I asked it of someone I know recently who just flat out said, "Do you expect me to believe something that was written a long time ago?" Which was sad to me, because even if that was a valid point, he didn't look into it enough to find evidence to support his idea.
 
studentofthemarkets said:
The dead sea scrolls prove without a doubt that the prophecies were written well before Jesus came
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Just like trading, there are many who make predictions.
Some get it right, most get it wrong.
Those wrong are swept away under the carpet, those right are trumpeted no end.
Those yet no fulfilled, we wait and hold our breath and we hold forever.
It's all a big scam, tricks played on the brain.
More tricks, twist the interpretations.
 
themickey said:
You know diddly squat Dunning Kruger.
We all know diddly squat.
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And that's exactly what every unbeliever thinks, because they haven't got a personal relationship with God, where He intervenes in their lives.

Nothing new about that. Jesus even told believers to expect unbelievers to not believe Christians have a real relationship with God:

They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do these things because they have not known the Father or Me.
John 16:3​
 
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