Chop

[kut2k2]

And if you're not interested in reading what's already been covered, why bother to begin again?

There are over 3.5M posts here, all of which may as well be deleted because nobody wants to or perhaps even knows how to use Search. And so another argument about "chop" and "scalping" and who's lying and who isn't about making this or that amount of money.

Silly.

Your exact words:

" Mark gave a fine definition of chop v trend v range, but let's whiz past that and argue."

To which I respond saying, hey, I looked and saw no such definitions. Where are they?

To which you respond Look at the links.

Aside from the fact that IF there is a definition of chop in NoDoji's thread, that is not Mark's doing AND no reasonable person would expect to find a definition of chop buried in a thread the premise of which is escaping chop should you find yourself in a trade in a choppy market. Presumably all the participants already know what chop is and they,re just looking to get out of it.

I didn't read the thread because I was looking for a way to trade chop, not to escape it. I already know how to avoid chop just fine. I also know how to define it, and Mark didn't do that.

 

[wrbtrader]

Because words matter. Details matter. I look and didn't find those "fine definitions" you referenced, yet you're irked that people seemingly passed right over them. Why? There's no there, there.

Unless you can give a direct quote or a direct link (not a link to some 12-page thread that *may* contain a definition), then seriously, what do you expect?

Kut2k2,

Your opening statement specifically requested "generic" info and nothing detailed in (as) a trading plan.

Therefore, I haven't been detailed but there's enough info there for you to easily research. Thus, if you've now changed your mind and you need detailed info...you can use your own link for such @ http://www.investopedia.com/ because I've already checked that link and they have excellent definitions (trend, range, chop) with chart examples. Other useful word to research is whipsaws.

There's also tons (countless) numbers of trend definition discussions, range definition discussions and chop definition (discussions) here at ET that can be easily found via ET search function.

Simply, no need to find direct links or quotes for you...its there at Investopedia and here at Elitetrader.com that can easily be found via their search menus in less than 1 minute. Also, in the past, I've seen you participate in "what is a trend" discussion threads here at ET. Thus, I'm confident you already know those definitions of range, trend and chop.

Another useful quick easy search is Google and then click on its images (tons of charts...generic charts and real price action charts).

 

[kut2k2]

Kut2k2,

Your opening statement specifically requested "generic" info and nothing detailed in (as) a trading plan.

Therefore, I haven't been detailed but there's enough info there for you to easily research. Thus, if you've now changed your mind and you need detailed info...you can use your own link for such @ http://www.investopedia.com/ because I've already checked that link and they have excellent definitions (trend, range, chop) with chart examples.

There's also tons (countless) numbers of trend definition discussions, range definition discussions and chop definition (discussions) here at ET that can be easily found via ET search function.

Simply, no need to find direct links or quotes for you...its there at Investopedia and here at Elitetrader.com that can easily be found via their search menus in less than 1 minute. Also, in the past, I've seen you participate in "what is a trend" discussion threads here at ET. Thus, I'm confident you already know those definitions of range, trend and chop.

Two things:

My request was for generic methods, not generic information of all types, because I didn't want anyone assuming I was asking for their specific strategy. People shouldn't be asked for their detailed trading plans. All I was asking, with the trend example given explicicitly, was anything similar available for chop trading.

Then some guy claims scalping is a PROVEN strategy, which is news to me and presumably to you as well given the number of failed scalpers you talked about. Is this proven strategy public knowledge? Certainly not. And since it's a kept secret, why is he talking like it's something that should be obvious to me?

So needless to say I was somewhat irritated when DB said all this stuff was a side issue and we missed some vital definitions that would clear everything up. To which I called bullshit.

I'm over it now. Got the answer to my question. Thanks to all who participated. Feel free to continue this discussion. Me, I'm outta here.

 

[romik]

During chop go the opposite way you want to go. May work.

 

[wrbtrader]

Excuse me,

You gave the below trend method as an example of a generic method.

Anybody trading during chop?

I'm looking for generic method(s), not a detailed plan.

Generic trend trading is straightforward:

* Buy if the trend is up.

* Shortsell if the trend is down.

* Exit if the trend disappears.

Anything similar for chop trading?

Thanks.

Therefore, it now makes sense my first reply (posted below) in this thread should have answered your question.

Based upon your generic example of trend trading...

* Avoid trading when there's chop

* Trade when there's no chop

* Exit trade when chop shows up

That's about as generic as it gets unless you're really after specifics (details).

 

[eurusdzn]

Chop is extended or lengthy Market Profile Time at price. If you enter at the mean, long or short, you can sell at a profit later unless chop ends. Frequency of chop varies from Al Brooks barbed wire to Jeff Coopers HitnRun pattern, and of course all of Alan Farleys work in between.
Partially, an attempt at humor of course. A few holiday beers here.
And similarly, the drift or trend in the chop will kill ya.

 

[i960]

Trading chop requires knowing where chop is going to be ahead of time - which means volume profile or similar. At that point you're merely recognizing chop and really trading the edges via range trading. Trading within chop itself would be limited to scalp moves only based on where others think something is going to move (but ultimately doesn't).

 

[wrbtrader]

...If you enter at the mean, long or short, you can sell at a profit later unless chop ends...

I think there's a well documented trade journal here at Elitetrader.com for such a few years back. He only traded chop or very tight (small) ranges.

 

[loyek590]

chop is when it moves just enough to stop you out, and then turns

 

[dbphoenix]

FWIW, trading ranges and trading chop have little to nothing to do with each other, and neither have anything to do with software or "programs". But, as Mark points out, this has all been discussed exhaustively. Those who are genuinely interested have plenty of resources to explore.