China's CNOOC signs $16B Gas deal with Iran, beginning of WW3?

[hels02]

Quote from richardyu301:

Even up to 1500 China had the biggest fleet in the world, biggest cities in the world, etc. It was simply the superpower at the time.

But within a few hundred years China was reduced to a country bullied by nearly every western countries and Japan.

The lesson is that figures don't represent anything. There was something very wrong about Chinese culture... it is the quality instead of figures that really counts.

So what US should ask is not whether China or other countries are growing and threatening them. They should rather ask whether they are correct on more fundamental policies such as education, openness of society, etc.

US is wasting too much time/money on irrelevant issues. This is their real danger.

Well said.

Its been brought up several times... instead of reacting to China's perceived 'threat', we need to do some belly button contemplation about what we are doing ourselves. What our politicians are doing, how to change the trend that has been going on in the last 20 years in an increasingly globalizing world.

We have a lot of tax dollars to spend. We've been spending an enormous amount of it on the military. The US military has been at the forefront of many private sector and industrial innovations and breakthroughs.

If we must fund our military to that degree, that funding should be shifted into better R&D, traditionally our strength, rather than $3000 screws and toilet seats. Closer collaboration with our Universities to develop innovations, and a better reward system for the innovative.

I don't believe it's too late either. Blaming or worrying about other nations instead of fixing our own problems is the wrong approach. I hope in 2008, we get at least 1 candidate that wants to fix the economy, pay down our debts and provide incentives for businesses IN the USA, rather than Bush's tax breaks for offshore Bermuda corporations.

Something as simple as $1000 in tax breaks for every new job position a US company creates a year that is hired in the USA would do a lot to curb the outsourcing.

We can fix it, but only if we are very choosy about who we pick for our leadership. Too much voter apathy in the US will accelerate our own downfall (and lead to morons like Bush).

 

[candletrader]

We must not allow China and India to get economic control in Iran...

The Chinese have already done some massive deals in Africa, and this is totally evil... Africa belongs to us and not to the Chinese...

The time has come for US-funded regime change (assasinations, coups and/or military intervention) in Africa and Iran, so that we can take back these countries into the US sphere of influence...

China and India are getting too big for their boots and we, the Civilized World (i.e USA and anyone who obeys us) must take action NOW against these dangerous, nuclear-armed, tinpot dictatorships...

We did a fine job hunting down the terrorists in Iraq and have gotten back the oil out of Saddam's hands and into the control of our oil companies... we should do the same in Iran and Africa...

 

[bsmeter2]

Quote from richardyu301:

Even up to 1500 China had the biggest fleet in the world, biggest cities in the world, etc. It was simply the superpower at the time.

But within a few hundred years China was reduced to a country bullied by nearly every western countries and Japan.

The lesson is that figures don't represent anything. There was something very wrong about Chinese culture... it is the quality instead of figures that really counts.

So what US should ask is not whether China or other countries are growing and threatening them. They should rather ask whether they are correct on more fundamental policies such as education, openness of society, etc.

US is wasting too much time/money on irrelevant issues. This is their real danger.

The problem with the Chinese was/is Pacifism. They've been an empire unto themselves for so long they never needed to conquer other lands, therefore they lost the fire in their belly needed to fight off conquerors. China's mistake was to invent the gunpowder and then allow foreign merchants to take the technology. If China had been a historically belligerent and warlike culture like Japan, it would have been the lone super power today, since the dark ages.

 

[bsmeter2]

Quote from richardyu301:

- most of the ppl in China are pleasants and their avg income is ~USD450 a yr
- making more than USD15k a yr is extremely difficult in mainland China. Actually less than 5% of the population belongs to this elite group
- unemployment of fresh graduate is over 30%
- vulnerable bank system
- 0.5% of the population controls 60% of the wealth

All these describe the situation in China.

So anyone who really thinks that China has any intention of worldwide domination is simply paranoid. China's own preoccupation is to feed its huge economy instead of being a power challenging other countries.

To US the real danger is what will happen if China's growth slows down and the chaos caused. Thinking that China will buy US out or challenge US militarily is simply paranoid.

I am a HK guy working in the semiconductor industry and visit all major China cities regularly. The so-called market leaders are simply assembly lines with little R&D ability.

Maybe many of the ppl here hv visited Shanghai... but hv you been to areas other than the few big cities??? With such a big population it is relatively easy to make a few big cities. But the difficulty China faces now is what to do next.... how to feed/grow the other 80% of population/areas... Don't get misled by what you see in Shanghai or Beijing or Shenzhen. They don't represent entire China. Most Chinese are still utterly poor.

So very true, It's good to finally read something on ET that makes any sense. Most of it is comedy relief.

What the average american ( read bush voter) fails to understand is that the Chinese leaders have more important things on their minds than "global domination". Their main goal is to keep the one party rule intact and they can only do this by providing jobs to the peasants so as to keep them preoccupied. With their one child policy, Chinese leaders know they're racing against time. Their population is aging and China needs to industrialize rapidly while its workforce is still young and healthy. The average american voter is so brain washed by their media propaganda, that they can no longer think rationally for themselves.

 

[bloosteak]

Quote from candletrader:

We must not allow China and India to get economic control in Iran...

The Chinese have already done some massive deals in Africa, and this is totally evil... Africa belongs to us and not to the Chinese...

The time has come for US-funded regime change (assasinations, coups and/or military intervention) in Africa and Iran, so that we can take back these countries into the US sphere of influence...

China and India are getting too big for their boots and we, the Civilized World (i.e USA and anyone who obeys us) must take action NOW against these dangerous, nuclear-armed, tinpot dictatorships...

We did a fine job hunting down the terrorists in Iraq and have gotten back the oil out of Saddam's hands and into the control of our oil companies... we should do the same in Iran and Africa...

Are you serious? You sound like Bill O'Reilly who thinks America is fundamentally righteous or something. And that other countries are evil and bent on torturing babies.

LOL. People really need to travel.
Do you guys know China appoints government positions by intelligence via testing scores?
They execute murderers/corrupt politicians/criminals with much less hesitance than America. Very efficient.
In comparison the American government is very very very inefficient. Two party system (can't get shit done), government re-election rates, massive government programs with increased growth, pork barrel earmarks, many extremists in the senate/house, etc

China also has a true seperation of religion from government. America technically should have it but it doesn't.

 

[futures_shark]

Quote from bloosteak:

...
Do you guys know China appoints government positions by intelligence via testing scores?

Is that right? That's much superior to choosing the best bullshitter out of a choice of two soulless opportunists. And then letting those idiots appoint other incompetents into positions of power.

Could you imagine the results if the US congress were given a final exam from a Constitutional Law 101 class?

 

[toc]

'We must not allow China and India to get economic control in Iran...

The Chinese have already done some massive deals in Africa, and this is totally evil... Africa belongs to us and not to the Chinese...'

To think that someone else's land or property is your own is an evil and loser thought and would end in self destruction eventually. US was not built and made thinking that they own the rest of the world. USSR thought that they would expand and conquer others and spread their commie agenda and in the end they self destroyed themselves.

What is constant is Change.........today US is at the helm of politcal and economic leadership and by 2050 China and India will top economies. By 2150 someone else will either join or replace them. Civilizations rise and fall and we have to make the best of that in our short lifespans.

 

[richardyu301]

To some extent it is true.

A bigger problem is that historically China has produced a lot of ppl who betrayed their motherland and helped foreigners to invade their land.

In WW2, Japan recruited a lot of Chinese to their armies. It is not unusual that there were more Chinese than Japanese in a Japanese army. And after WW2, Chairman Chao actually thanked Japan for invading China.... otherwise it wouldn't create a chaos so they could overthrow the government and seized power.

I am a Chinese. I am not saying this to belittle Chinese ppl. It is just that when you are poor, you actually really care little other than the small cycle around you.... so if a Chinese company settles a deal with Iran thousand of miles away, it is b'coz they find it necessary to do so to get enough oil to run their little sweatshops.

Chinese culture is very different from Japan.... We don't produce Sumarai. For hundreds of years the dynasties were run by bureaucrats. And these bureaucrats got their jobs b'coz they could pass exams instead of winning battles.

Quote from bsmeter2:

The problem with the Chinese was/is Pacifism. They've been an empire unto themselves for so long they never needed to conquer other lands, therefore they lost the fire in their belly needed to fight off conquerors. China's mistake was to invent the gunpowder and then allow foreign merchants to take the technology. If China had been a historically belligerent and warlike culture like Japan, it would have been the lone super power today, since the dark ages.

 

[richardyu301]

Another myth is that the Chinese government is giving a lot of subsidies to local companies. This is simply not true.

They do give subsidies.... but only to big banks (to write off their debts) or some firms that are crucial to China economies such as telecom companies like Huawei.

For the other local companies, they are charging them very high tax rate. The corporate tax rate is 33%. After tax reduction, the effective tax rate for the local companies is ~25%. However, foreign companies can get much more tax reductions so their tax rate is just ~15%. And foreign companies can get 2 years of tax waver and 3 years of 50% tax reduction (from the time these foreign companies produce a profit instead of from the time they set up the companies).

The low-cost goods you see in Walmart are from these local companies that are actually paying even higher tax than foreign companies. The reason why they can offer such a low cost is that they pay very little to the workers and their margin is razor thin.

So China is actually milking local companies to compensate foreign invested companies or local big firms.

Things are starting to change since local companies are now complaining loud. But this situation is hard to change since even if the central government wants to change, the local officials still give a lot of subsidies to foreign investors.... these local officials hv to do this otherwise the foreign investment will go to another province. These local officials are still fighting among themselves for the capital

Honestly speaking, Hong Kong companies are taking a lot of benefits b'coz of this. Hong Kong firms are the first to invest in mainland China and they got a lot of government subsidies. The end result.... Hong Kong ppl in avg hv the most assets per person in the world according to a recent survey.

So most of the wealth generated eventually go to big cities such as Hong Kong, Shanghai, Shenzhen or in the pockets of big US/EU/Japan firms which set up firms there. So if someone goes to Shanghai, get impressed and then reach the conclusion that this is modern China then it is very wrong. What he sees is just a little city for the elite group... and even this elite group in avg can only make ~USD600 a mth, less than what a waiter/waitress in US can make.

 

[Enfinity]

Perhaps you know these people you speak of and that gives you the confidence to speak like this... Never mind, you seem to have a good grasp on these issues. I am not going to spoon-feed you. Go turn your television on and listen to what they tell you, I know nothing!

Their retirement has little to do with Bush...money is but one opportunity.

Quote from hels02:
So they found other jobs, this means... what? The prestige of their positions, and the fact that they had so much more work life left that they'd go take another job after being in positions among the most high profile powerful positions on planet earth just for money? You think US Major Generals are underpaid? [/B]