China pushes back against US sanctions with new rules

[JSOP]

Read the history of Iran for its democratic aspirations. Hint, it predates the Shah who was installed by the US and whose reign of terror led the population to prefer Khomeini!

Vietnam, same, read its pre communist history all the way prior to French Indochina.

Chile, same, read about Chile's 60s era prior to the coup that thwarted democratic elections when the people voted for a centrist socialist.

While you're at it, you might want to read up on US involvement propping and supporting dictatorships throughout South and Central America in the 60s through 80s. We called it anti communist support of course. Our overt and covert support meant our corporations had preferential treatment, some of which even nearly owned countries. We helped create an elite class which came with repressive regimes to keep the peasants at bay.

Whatever happened in the past is irrelevant. Regimes change, people change and times change. There is no guarantee that every single leader that comes onto the political stage is going to be competent and wise. You can't look at one person, one period of time and blame everything on that one particular thing. George W. Bush was incredibly incompetent. He literally did NOTHING except getting rid of Saddam Hussein and advancing daylight-saving time to start in the spring. But you don't see people uprising to all of sudden abandon democracy despite all the hacking endeavours by China? https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/chinese-hackers-charged-in-equifax-breach-021020

I never said China was innocent. In fact, I say China is just as corrupt and guilty as the US advancing their special interests wrapped in democratic and free enterprise ideals.
We were the top dogs post WW2 until the early 90s, that's a long time! But we got fat and lazy and believed we were invincible, something about being god anointed... But the rest of the world caught up, the countries of Europe created Europe and its ideal, no small feat, and made it much stronger than it was to compete with the gorilla in the room. Then Asian nations worked really, really hard demonstrating their capabilities while we crushed their cars and called them every racist word in the book. First the Japanese, then the Koreans and now the Chinese. Each is out there to prove that they can do as well as, if not better, than the other guy and the US.
They did, they are and, while we are still very good at many things, we are no longer good at many more things that we were the best at. And instead of taking on the healthy competitive challenge, we point fingers and spew racist hatred.

That's all very good of what everybody achieved but the problem right now is with China's world domination and imposing its doctrine and ideology onto others instead of tolerating and embracing differences in others. That is just as racist as somebody shouting racial slurs, if not even worse. You are talking about the annihilation of cultures and history and the identity and very existence of who they are as a person. There is no problem with China's development of the "one belt one road" initiative. But WHY is it deliberately excluding some nations? The West let China into the WTO and now China wants to exclude other nations just because it thinks it's rich enough? You think China would've had the prosperity it has today if it wasn't allowed to join the WTO? Nice way to bite the hand that fed you. But why China wants to do that? It's obvious. It wants to establish its own regime, its own order of things. It basically wants to become everything that it's always preached against.

China is not just "not innocent". China is worse. It sees the evil in others and it seeks to repeat it and make it even worse.

 

[themickey]

......
You think China would've had the prosperity it has today if it wasn't allowed to join the WTO? Nice way to bite the hand that fed you. But why China wants to do that? It's obvious. It wants to establish its own regime, its own order of things. It basically wants to become everything that it's always preached against.

China is not just "not innocent". China is worse. It sees the evil in others and it seeks to repeat it and make it even worse.

Here's an example of China's 3rd world behaviour now that it thinks its equal with the USA (The West).

Victoria's premier Daniel Andrews who appears to me and others of being a communist sympathizer, made a deal with China on Belts and Roads quite a while back.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison decided to scrap the deal a couple of days ago.

This is China's response to Australia....

‘Firmly and forcefully’: China threatens Australia over Belt and Road decision
By Eryk Bagshaw and Anthony Galloway
April 22, 2021 https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...r-belt-and-road-decision-20210422-p57lia.html

China has threatened retaliation over the federal government’s decision to cancel Victoria’s Belt and Road agreement as the move secured support across the political and security spectrums in Australia.

But senior Australian officials who were not authorised to speak on the record said Australia was prepared to wear China’s response given how the nation had survived the past year of economic coercion.

In the first official comments from the Chinese government since Wednesday night’s decision, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said the move would deepen tensions between Canberra and Beijing. Australia is the first country to have scrapped a signed BRI agreement.

“China has made solemn representations to the Australian side and reserves the right to react further,” Mr Wang said.
“China urges Australia to immediately correct its mistake, immediately revoke the relevant wrong decision, and not to continue to rub salt on the wound of the already difficult Sino-Australian relations. Otherwise, China will definitely respond firmly and forcefully.”

 

[VicBee]

Whatever happened in the past is irrelevant. Regimes change, people change and times change. There is no guarantee that every single leader that comes onto the political stage is going to be competent and wise. You can't look at one person, one period of time and blame everything on that one particular thing. George W. Bush was incredibly incompetent. He literally did NOTHING except getting rid of Saddam Hussein and advancing daylight-saving time to start in the spring. But you don't see people uprising to all of sudden abandon democracy despite all the hacking endeavours by China? https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/chinese-hackers-charged-in-equifax-breach-021020

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/chinese-hackers-charged-in-equifax-breach-021020

I beg to differ. History is absolutely key to understanding the present. Today's US turmoil is tied to history, slavery, confederate flag, lynching, etc.. That's history not going away. Bush taking out Saddam may be barely relevant to you, but it sure is a big deal in Irak depending on if you're a Shiite, a Sunni or a Yazidi, and that will be an issue in 50 years. And western colonization of China 150 years ago still dictates that country's understanding of the western world.

That's all very good of what everybody achieved but the problem right now is with China's world domination and imposing its doctrine and ideology onto others instead of tolerating and embracing differences in others. That is just as racist as somebody shouting racial slurs, if not even worse. You are talking about the annihilation of cultures and history and the identity and very existence of who they are as a person. There is no problem with China's development of the "one belt one road" initiative. But WHY is it deliberately excluding some nations? The West let China into the WTO and now China wants to exclude other nations just because it thinks it's rich enough? You think China would've had the prosperity it has today if it wasn't allowed to join the WTO? Nice way to bite the hand that fed you. But why China wants to do that? It's obvious. It wants to establish its own regime, its own order of things. It basically wants to become everything that it's always preached against.

China is not just "not innocent". China is worse. It sees the evil in others and it seeks to repeat it and make it even worse.

Unlike the US which operates without plans, China only operates by plans; it's the nature of their political system. Their belt and road is their long term plan, to help China expand economically and secure the goods it needs for production and for national security. All countries in the world who can, do the same thing.

China has no world domination plan and has no wish to impose its doctrine or ideology on anyone outside of what it considers its nation. That is certainly subject to debate when talking about Taiwan, the South China Seas, Tibet or areas on the border of India. And not once do I deny that these border issues could lead to war in the not so distant future. America nearly went nuclear with the USSR over missiles in Cuba, remember?

Nations that can, assert their powers to justify their seat at the big table, and the Chinese are showing that they belong and they aren't going to ask western nations for the right to that seat. They are certainly blunt and assertive and losing massive amounts of goodwill in the process. Western nations and nations around China ought to build their case to the international bodies (UN Security Council, ICJ.. bodies the US refuses to recognize btw) to show China the risks it is taking if it pursues policies that undermine neighbors' rights.

Again, a localized skirmish could be triggered at any of these points, with the concern that it would expand. And we would have to beat them or they will by right reclaim all the territories it calls Chinese. The sheer number of foes it has surrounding it make it difficult for China to win, but it could get really ugly, very quickly, considering the formidable military it can deploy. Most Southeast Asian nations have large more or less integrated Chinese communities that would suffer the most in such conflict and the world economy would collapse. Good bye stock market!

 

[JSOP]

Unlike the US which operates without plans, China only operates by plans; it's the nature of their political system. Their belt and road is their long term plan, to help China expand economically and secure the goods it needs for production

Aka to be more efficient in getting what's needed from the colonized nations.

and for national security.

Really? Somebody actually dares to pick on a country that has the third most advanced nuclear weapon program in the world and has one of the largest armies in the world?

All countries in the world who can, do the same thing.

Doesn't mean it's correct. If you see somebody stealing you don't say, oh because that person is stealing, I should steal too otherwise I will miss out. Other people who can, steal so I should steal too and steal even better than anyone else is just despicable.

China has no world domination plan and has no wish to impose its doctrine or ideology on anyone outside of what it considers its nation.

Yeah by the time when we are all saluting the national flag of China, it will be all too late.

And not once do I deny that these border issues could lead to war in the not so distant future. America nearly went nuclear with the USSR over missiles in Cuba, remember?

That is a totally different issue. Don't call the kettle black. It was Russia who armed Cuba with nuclear missiles, USA had no choice but to take pre-emptive actions to defend itself. If tomorrow, China sends Guam or Peurto Rico nuclear missiles, USA will be forced to do the same. It was Russia who drew the first blood. You don't go arm the neighbour of somebody you don't agree with who lives in another city with the most advanced semi-automatic weapons and pretend it's just a "border issue".

Nations that can, assert their powers to justify their seat at the big table, and the Chinese are showing that they belong and they aren't going to ask western nations for the right to that seat. They are certainly blunt and assertive and losing massive amounts of goodwill in the process. Western nations and nations around China ought to build their case to the international bodies (UN Security Council, ICJ.. bodies the US refuses to recognize btw) to show China the risks it is taking if it pursues policies that undermine neighbors' rights.

China has been a member of the Security Council since the beginning of time. Nobody's doing anything or saying anything to eject them from the "big table"? What's changed now? No it's because China wants more. It doesn't want just a seat at the table anymore; no, it wants the whole table.

I have said it before and I will say it again. China has lots of positive things to offer but the biggest problem is its unwillingness and inability to be able to tolerate and embrace things that are different. To them everything is binary. If you like me, you must conform to me, my way and that's it otherwise you don't like me and I must conquer you. There is nothing in between, no middle ground. How about I like you but I still want to do things my way? No, that's not allowed. That's not going to be acceptable.

Again, a localized skirmish could be triggered at any of these points, with the concern that it would expand. And we would have to beat them or they will by right reclaim all the territories it calls Chinese. The sheer number of foes it has surrounding it make it difficult for China to win, but it could get really ugly, very quickly, considering the formidable military it can deploy. Most Southeast Asian nations have large more or less integrated Chinese communities that would suffer the most in such conflict and the world economy would collapse. Good bye stock market!

China does NOT give a s***!

 

[JSOP]

Here's an example of China's 3rd world behaviour now that it thinks its equal with the USA (The West).

Victoria's premier Daniel Andrews who appears to me and others of being a communist sympathizer, made a deal with China on Belts and Roads quite a while back.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison decided to scrap the deal a couple of days ago.

This is China's response to Australia....

‘Firmly and forcefully’: China threatens Australia over Belt and Road decision
By Eryk Bagshaw and Anthony Galloway
April 22, 2021 https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...r-belt-and-road-decision-20210422-p57lia.html

China has threatened retaliation over the federal government’s decision to cancel Victoria’s Belt and Road agreement as the move secured support across the political and security spectrums in Australia.

But senior Australian officials who were not authorised to speak on the record said Australia was prepared to wear China’s response given how the nation had survived the past year of economic coercion.

In the first official comments from the Chinese government since Wednesday night’s decision, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said the move would deepen tensions between Canberra and Beijing. Australia is the first country to have scrapped a signed BRI agreement.

“China has made solemn representations to the Australian side and reserves the right to react further,” Mr Wang said.
“China urges Australia to immediately correct its mistake, immediately revoke the relevant wrong decision, and not to continue to rub salt on the wound of the already difficult Sino-Australian relations. Otherwise, China will definitely respond firmly and forcefully.”

Yeah what do you mean you are not going to allow me to build that military base in the middle of your bedroom? After all, all of your households has agreed to it. I didn't spend millions of dollars buying that expensive wheelchair for the dementia-laden grandpa for nothing. He's already voted to agree. You better correct the mistake by letting me build that military base or else. What do you mean this is still your house? No I give you money, I buy your imports, it's mine. You agreed to it and you are not allowed to change your mind later. I agreed in the signing of The Basic Law to let Hong Kong people govern Hong Kong in a democratic system but I change my mind now, that's me. I am allowed to do that. Hong Kong is my sovereign land. Australia is not. Australia belongs to China. If you don't like it, feel free to fight me. I spend trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars on my military, I am dying for a chance to test it out. Are you game?

Are you prepared to take up your arms to fight for your country, @themickey? After all, you should win. You have Thor and Faramir and Wolverine and even Eowyn (She is no man!).

 

[themickey]

.....It was Russia who armed Cuba with nuclear missiles, USA had no choice but to take pre-emptive actions to defend itself. If tomorrow, China sends Guam or Peurto Rico nuclear missiles, USA will be forced to do the same. It was Russia who drew the first blood. You don't go arm the neighbour of somebody you don't agree with who lives in another city with the most advanced semi-automatic weapons and pretend it's just a "border issue".

China has been a member of the Security Council since the beginning of time. Nobody's doing anything or saying anything to eject them from the "big table"? What's changed now? No it's because China wants more. It doesn't want just a seat at the table anymore; no, it wants the whole table.

I have said it before and I will say it again. China has lots of positive things to offer but the biggest problem is its unwillingness and inability to be able to tolerate and embrace things that are different. To them everything is binary. If you like me, you must conform to me, my way and that's it otherwise you don't like me and I must conquer you. There is nothing in between, no middle ground. How about I like you but I still want to do things my way? No, that's not allowed. That's not going to be acceptable.

China does NOT give a s***!

There are alot of similarities with China which began to sand dredge then build upon reefs in the South China Sea.
In 1987, China installed a small military structure on Fiery Cross Reef under the pretext of building an oceanic observation station and installing a tide gauge for the Global Sea Level Observing System. After a deadly skirmish with the Vietnamese Navy, China installed some military structures on more reefs in the vicinity of the Philippines and Vietnamese occupied islands and this led to escalating tensions between these countries and China over the status and "ownership" of reefs.
Currently China has an airfield recently built and has quietly installed anti-ship cruise missiles and surface-to-air missile systems on three of its fortified outposts west of the Philippines in the South China Sea, a move that allows Beijing to further project its power in the hotly disputed waters, according to sources with direct knowledge of U.S. intelligence reports.

It has been these actions which have created friction between China and numerous other countries.

 

[themickey]

China quietly installed missile systems on strategic Spratly Islands in hotly contested South China Sea
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/02/chi...ms-on-spratly-islands-in-south-china-sea.html

......Harris told Congress that Beijing’s impressive military buildup, including its pursuit of hypersonic weapons, could challenge the United States “across almost every domain.”

“While some view China’s actions in the East and South China Seas as opportunistic, I do not. I view them as coordinated, methodical and strategic, using their military and economic power to erode the free and open international order,” Harris told the House Armed Services Committee.

......“Ladies and gentlemen, China’s intent is crystal clear. We ignore it at our peril,” Harris said.

 

[d08]

The only thing to think about; the West wish to spread democracy, China wants to kill it.
No government is perfect, but a democratic process allows for openness and criticism.
An open process allows for inspection and rectification if things get out of hand without the fear of retribution so long as lawful.
Democratic laws are different from autocratic laws.

I was with you until this. The US preaches democracy while ruthlessly comes down if people actually choose it. Egypt is a great example, people democratically elected a leader. Americans didn't like it and organized an overthrow of the government, effectively installing a puppet leader. American style democracy is "democracy is great but only if WE approve".

 

[d08]

"Land that Australians have already done the hard work to develop"...? Either you've never been to China, or you've never been to Australia, but that sentence is hilarious.

Who do you think built the Australian railway?

Australians who are ethnic Chinese? That's what you were going for?
I've family who moved to Australia many decades ago, many helped build infrastructure by working in mines and doing other hard jobs. Suddenly according to you they don't exist, it's all done by Chinese.

 

[d08]

See, I would accept your statement if the issue of spyware was entirely that of the evil communist yellow slanted eyes people. But it's not. The Americans are caught regularly spying on friends and foes alike using the same methods used by what those same Americans think the Chinese do.
I don't suggest the Chinese don't use every trick in the book to get their ways, because I'm sure they do and I complain about it too. But what I find worst, if when we pretend we don't do it as much as they do, because we're a democracy, or respect a right or another, we respect laws, love our people more, because we're Christians or White, or whatever vomit you can come up with. Ultimately, it shows how poorly educated you are, and how so quickly you're willing to swallow shit any which way it comes.

Can I guess that you're Singaporean-Chinese?

No-one talked about "yellow slanted eyes people" before you mentioned it. Chinese are even hated by many other "yellow" people across Asia, even many with Chinese ancestry have hatred for the Mainlanders.

Yes, America pulls plenty of crap, some of it is near hostile towards its allies. But still, US is an ally in the west and there is some accountability most of the time (unlike with China).