That's exactly the thinking leading to the US downfall.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
China May Soon Lead the U.S. in Tech
- Thread starter 777
- Start date
I was careful to emphasize that it's not about being Asian but about hard work and determination, and these North Asian cultures are driven. I also pointed out that I'm not convinced theirs is the best way to live (Korean kid suicides are the highest in the world) but simply stating the facts to understand why their technical development is outpacing ours.They score higher on aptitude tests, statistically speaking. We have to be careful attributing character proficiencies ("they work harder") or deficiencies because it suggests character problems ("they're lazy") in communities at the other end of the scale, worsening their problems.
What do these companies have in common?I think what the US universities are looking for today is well-roundedness and not just dedication to studies. Anybody can be dedicated to studying and I do want to emphasize ANYBODY but not everybody can be well-rounded to be well developed in all aspects of life. So what the universities in the US is saying is that it would rather admit somebody who is 80% in all aspects of life rather than 100% in just studying. Cuz if you are only able to study and work and are not able to do or enjoy anything else or have no independent thoughts of your own then all you are at best is just a machine and machines are replaceable and dispensable. What these universities want are people who have what it takes to be leaders.
Google, IBM, Microsoft, Twitter, Micron, Nokia, Mastercard, Adobe, and many others
They're all headed by India born CEOs who graduated with STEM degrees in India before coming to the US where they pursued Management degrees and went on to become leaders.
What do these companies have in common?
Google, IBM, Microsoft, Twitter, Micron, Nokia, Mastercard, Adobe, and many others
They're all headed by India born CEOs who graduated with STEM degrees in India before coming to the US where they pursued Management degrees and went on to become leaders.
If the culture in the US is in fact better at capital allocation, then this is what you'd expect. Indeed, capital allocation is a better skill for growth than tech skills. So as long as the US keeps pulling people in, things will keep going, the population will keep getting dumber, the divide will keep growing and eventually here will Eloi and Morlock.
I have several very successful Australian born Chinese friends whose kids I saw growing up and who undoubtedly will become leaders based on their work ethics, family support and relationships. These are all 2nd generation whose parents came from China no better off than any migrants fleeing communist persecution and landing in NZ and AUS.Vic, off the top of your head would you know how many hours per day, days per week and weeks per year Japan and other Asian Nation Youts apply toward education? Granted they may not be as well versed in Womens Studies, Gender classification schemes, etc but they still know which bafroom to use when nature calls, right? Some of them can read by the time they graduate high-school I'm told. Lots of them don't even need do-overs after they get out of high-school and realize oh crap. I can't read or divide or multiply except by sex. Better borrow $4200 a quarter for some online skool and pick some of that read write rithmatic up. Homework? Test's not till Next week. Relax. I'm goin on Maury next week. Gotta get the do tuned up. Lookin good.
But rather than using anecdotal cases, being in Singapore I see how the system works and is not so different from some European educational systems. High school are hierarchical and all middle school kids are tested prior to see who will end up in which school. This same process repeats for college and from college to higher degrees. Family pressure is relentless, school starts at 7:30 am and ends at 1:30 pm. From there, they often go to after school tutoring school (they're everywhere) until 4:30 pm then have about 3 hours of homework daily and repeat.
Singaporean are not allowed to attend foreigner schools until last year of HS and with special approval, like one of the parent is foreigner or the kid is showing excessive signs of stress and a psychologist suggests a less demanding school regimen. Those foreign schools (American, Australian, German, French, Canadian, Japanese...) are among the highest rated international schools of the various countries but Singapore considers them 2nd rate. The % of Singaporean kids in foreign HS is very low, a couple dozen in schools of 2k students.
Here's a link to Singapore education:
https://www.trade.gov/country-commercial-guides/singapore-education
From the link, and to validate my argument about Asian who cannot make it to their best universities go abroad instead:
"However, due to the competitive nature of higher education in Singapore, around 23,000 Singapore students travel overseas to further their studies."
What do these companies have in common?
Google, IBM, Microsoft, Twitter, Micron, Nokia, Mastercard, Adobe, and many others
They're all headed by India born CEOs who graduated with STEM degrees in India before coming to the US where they pursued Management degrees and went on to become leaders.
My daughter is Canadian born, Canadian educated and has been fast tracking through IT mgmt for US based firms. She has many peers and colleagues that aren't fitting the mold you are trying to sell. None of them are taking a second seat to some over educated Asian sourced demographic. I could go on about India and IT but out in the real world people are well aware of some of the limitations of this approach. Certainly it never worked out for IBM.
Last edited:
I didn't mean to belittle your educational achievements and I'm sorry if I did. The point I was making is if your country or business is pushing to build advanced rockets, quantum computing, help Tesla build its AI, and fill hundreds of leading research in sciences you will need a PhD or 2 to conduct fundamental and applied research.My daughter is Canadian born, Canadian educated and has been fast tracking through IT mgmt. . She has many colleagues that aren't fitting the mold you are trying to sell. In fact, both my wife and I have extensive IT experience.
This article details China's increasing growth in STEM PhD graduates over the US:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...a-in-production-of-stem-phds/?sh=f63b90a46067
More importantly though, about 120,000 US PhD STEM graduates are foreign students, mostly from India and China.
Again, the point I'm trying to make is that in order to remain competitive, the US must rethink its education system. Attracting foreign students worked for 60 years and is preferred by those who don't want to spend fed dollars on education. But supply and demand in education is showing its limitations. Our population is under educated, particularly in STEM, from the kids early years.
Every country in the world provides free or near free education to its citizens, except the US which charges nearly $400k for the privilege of reaching the summit of a STEM PhD. We are a shooting ourselves in the foot.
But the cynicism is that those against free education are those who can afford to send their kids to college and don't want the sudden competition for college entry and later for jobs that a free education would bring.
I didn't mean to belittle your educational achievements and I'm sorry if I did. The point I was making is if your country or business is pushing to build advanced rockets, quantum computing, help Tesla build its AI, and fill hundreds of leading research in sciences you will need a PhD or 2 to conduct fundamental and applied research.
This article details China's increasing growth in STEM PhD graduates over the US:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...a-in-production-of-stem-phds/?sh=f63b90a46067
More importantly though, about 120,000 US PhD STEM graduates are foreign students, mostly from India and China.
Again, the point I'm trying to make is that in order to remain competitive, the US must rethink its education system. Attracting foreign students worked for 60 years and is preferred by those who don't want to spend fed dollars on education. But supply and demand in education is showing its limitations. Our population is under educated, particularly in STEM, from the kids early years.
Every country in the world provides free or near free education to its citizens, except the US which charges nearly $400k for the privilege of reaching the summit of a STEM PhD. We are a shooting ourselves in the foot.
But the cynicism is that those against free education are those who can afford to send their kids to college and don't want the sudden competition for college entry and later for jobs that a free education would bring.
My perspective is from Canada and we aren't having a problem developing STEM based talent; keeping it here may be an issue. You might note that the whole PhD thesis just doesn't hold much weight here; it's more about going to the right school for 4 years and early career choices. School is a lot cheaper and more accessible here then the US.
These guys came from some good stock though. Bill Gates dad was some major banker, Zucks was from a well-to-do middle class family and Musk's family, although quite fucked, was very wealthy. Jack Ma, I don't know much about.
If the west wants to create more right-side-of-the-curve entrepreneurs, the best thing that can be done is to make a larger middle class. But every action is seemingly designed to do the opposite.
This I agree with you. A large middle-class is essential to the health of a nation both to its economic and political stability as well as providing a conductive environment for educational development.
What do these companies have in common?
Google, IBM, Microsoft, Twitter, Micron, Nokia, Mastercard, Adobe, and many others
They're all headed by India born CEOs who graduated with STEM degrees in India before coming to the US where they pursued Management degrees and went on to become leaders.
They all have inherited companies that were founded by innovative leaders that were not machines but dared to think outside of the box and do something different.