China economic sanctions over human rights abuses

[newwurldmn]

P

It's not very relevant to the topic, but the answer is "unclear", as far as I remember.

On one hand, as soon as Nazis started killing the Jews in the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941 there was plenty of information filtering to the allied forces. It was primarily stuff like German police reports intercepted by British intelligence; local eyewitnesses, escaped Jews, Soviet news sources etc. By 1942, detailed reports on a Nazi plan to murder all the Jews (with details on methods, numbers, and locations) have certainly reached the Allies from source like Warsaw ghetto underground, various eyewitness account etc. In fact, in 1942 the Allies issued a proclamation condemning the “extermination” of the Jewish people.

On the other hand, it's unclear if this intelligence was ignored or simply misunderstood. The shock of the US and other Allied commanders who liberated camps at the end of the war might mean that either that information was not shared from up high or the extent was not understood.

In short, the US could have done something, from accepting Jewish refugees when it was still possible to escape to actually bombing the railroad lines in the late stages of the war. Same goes for other genocides that the US, a predominant military power "committed to the good" has completely ignored since then. To name the few recent ones, Rohingya, Dafur or Rwanda come to mind.

As an aside, I had read the allies didn’t bomb the railroad lines because they knew the nazis would blame Jewish deaths on those bombings rather than on the camps they ran.

 

[Cuddles]

It's not very relevant to the topic, but the answer is "unclear", as far as I remember.

On one hand, as soon as Nazis started killing the Jews in the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941 there was plenty of information filtering to the allied forces. It was primarily stuff like German police reports intercepted by British intelligence; local eyewitnesses, escaped Jews, Soviet news sources etc. By 1942, detailed reports on a Nazi plan to murder all the Jews (with details on methods, numbers, and locations) have certainly reached the Allies from source like Warsaw ghetto underground, various eayewitness account etc. In fact, in 1942 the Allies issued a proclamation condemning the “extermination” of the Jewish people.

On the other hand, it's unclear if this intelligence was ignored or simply misunderstood. The shock of the US and other Allied commanders who liberated camps at the end of the war might mean that either that information was not shared from up high or the extent was not understood.

In short, the US could have done something, from accepting Jewish refugees when it was still possible to escape to actually bombing the railroad lines in the late stages of the war. Same goes for other genocides that the US, a predominant military power "committed to the good" has completely ignored since then. To name the few recent ones, Rohingya, Dafur or Rwanda come to mind.

P


As an aside, I had read the allies didn’t bomb the railroad lines because they knew the nazis would blame Jewish deaths on those bombings rather than on the camps they ran.

One has to remember antisemitism is as American as apple pie, we just have revisionist history in our schools. Didn't Hitler look at Henry Ford for inspiration? I'm fairly certain Americans were looking at Jews back then the same way some Americans look at Muslims now, which is why history is repeating itself. I mean we've got our own child camps now because undocumented immigrants are look down on the same way.

edit w/sources:
https://www.history.com/news/wwii-jewish-refugee-ship-st-louis-1939
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/04/may...-on-henry-fords-anti-semitism-goes-viral.html

 

[Overnight]

...I mean we've got our own child camps now because undocumented immigrants are look down on the same way.

edit w/sources:
https://www.history.com/news/wwii-jewish-refugee-ship-st-louis-1939
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/04/may...-on-henry-fords-anti-semitism-goes-viral.html

We're not throwing them into ovens or gas chambers en masse! Good grief!

 

[Overnight]

...

In short, the US could have done something...

The US DID do something...They got involved in the European theater! We were getting smashed on the western front, and then we took it to Europe's eastern front. Well, our front to the east of us!

 

[bone]

There’s been considerable academic research from a variety of sources on this topic. The conclusion is generally the same: That the Allies were not in a military position to materially mitigate the Holocaust in terms of intervention.

But your point about the US taking in more Jewish refugees before the war is valid. But it should equally be noted that many Jews preferred to relocate to other European Countries from the German pogroms in the 1930’s, which as we know only delayed their deaths as the Nazis overran continental Europe.

From the American Holocaust Museum:

“The US Government learned about the systematic killing of Jews almost as soon as it began in the Soviet Union in 1941. Throughout the war, however, the Allied governments prioritized defeating Nazism, not saving Jews.

Beyond the military goal of defeating Nazism, the United States could have publicized information about Nazi atrocities, pressured the other Allies and neutral nations to help endangered Jews, and supported resistance groups against the Nazis. Prior to the war, the US government could have enlarged or filled its immigration quotas to allow more Jewish refugees to enter the country. These acts together might have reduced the death toll, but they would not have prevented the Holocaust.“

It's not very relevant to the topic, but the answer is "unclear", as far as I remember.

On one hand, as soon as Nazis started killing the Jews in the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941 there was plenty of information filtering to the allied forces. It was primarily stuff like German police reports intercepted by British intelligence; local eyewitnesses, escaped Jews, Soviet news sources etc. By 1942, detailed reports on a Nazi plan to murder all the Jews (with details on methods, numbers, and locations) have certainly reached the Allies from source like Warsaw ghetto underground, various eyewitness account etc. In fact, in 1942 the Allies issued a proclamation condemning the “extermination” of the Jewish people.

On the other hand, it's unclear if this intelligence was ignored or simply misunderstood. The shock of the US and other Allied commanders who liberated camps at the end of the war might mean that either that information was not shared from up high or the extent was not understood.

In short, the US could have done something, from accepting Jewish refugees when it was still possible to escape to actually bombing the railroad lines in the late stages of the war. Same goes for other genocides that the US, a predominant military power "committed to the good" has completely ignored since then. To name the few recent ones, Rohingya, Dafur or Rwanda come to mind.

 

[longshort]

Truth is the first casualty of war. This holds for today and even more so for the past.

Many people know about the false claims of weapons of mass destruction never to be found, yet used as moral justification for the 2nd Iraq war.

Not as many know justification for the 1st Iraq war was just as false. You can bring up Youtube today and watch the infamous Nayirah testimony yourself. The fake witness set up by U.S. intelligence alleged before Congress that Iraqi soldiers took babies out of incubators and threw them onto the ground. Highly emotional and effective, but still all fraud and lies.

Here we have just two examples of U.S. starting wars of aggression under false pretexts. But this is the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg. In other cases, what once was war propaganda remained as the official/mainstream narrative despite some or much of it being just as dubious.

To understand the scope of Anglo-American imperialism, it helps to bring up a map of 1920 Britain and see how it includes half the world. Bring up a map of today and see where U.S. military is stationed and in which countries U.S. operations (from "regime change" to occasional bombings) were conducted in the last few decades.

I have to cringe whenever I hear in "Western" media that China isn't supposed to have this ship or that base in the South China Sea. Wait a second. What's the sea called again? Or when I hear that Europe isn't supposed to buy natural gas from Russia, else face sanctions. Imperialism at its finest.

Britain actually starved millions to death in India and started wars for the most atrocious reasons, like China not wanting to buy their opium any more. Think about that. Alas the empire, then and now, never lost its chuzpe to claim the moral high ground.

 

[xandman]

Compare these so called US atrocities to previous European empires. Civilization has moved forward with the US leading the way. And also fortunate, the Spanish, Dutch and British empires did not line roads with heads-on-a-pike or crucifixion themselves. That was also a move forward.

The old "US as an imperialist hypocrite" argument doesn't mean China doesn't need to stop with abuses.

And as the most capable nation among many, it has a responsibility to lead the way again. That is the justification for the intellectual debaters. However, it would also be naive for anyone think there are no other ulterior motives. Let's be grown up about this.

As for the South China Sea, you only have to look at the map to see their over-reach. The CCP is the biggest threat to peoples of this world. We need to keep them in check.

 

[Same Lazy Element]

Highly emotional and effective, but still all fraud and lies.

So are you suggesting that prosecution of Uigurs is fully fabricated by the Western media?

You are giving us a typical moral equivalency argument. Yes, the US is frequently acting as a belligerent empire and no, not everything is ok in the US when it comes to race etc. Those things (both imperialist behavior and systemic racism) have to be fixed ASAP. However, it does not make genocidal behavior of other countries OK, including China or anyone else.

In any case, nobody is suggesting invading China. Simple financial sanctions would be enough to raise the cost of these actions.

 

[vanzandt]

they are being monitored for terrorist attacks and belonging to anti-gov't and terrorist gangs and organizations so they monitored. there is no privacy for known terrorist or criminals.

Chinese laws are tough.
death penalty for gov't corruption and dealing drugs etc.
and 10 years in prison for treason and anti-gov't activity
Belong in a a criminal gangs is not legal in China, in US it would freedom to associate or form political parties. etc.
In China, belonging in a criminal gang can get you in prison for 10 years. In the US criminal gangs openly flaunt their criminal gang associations and wearing their colours in the streets and youtube. channel for their gang. or selling gang t-shirts

Is Elite-Trader behind "The Great Firewall" of China?
I wonder.

 

[vanzandt]

Truth is the first casualty of war.
Not as many know justification for the 1st Iraq war was just as false. You can bring up Youtube today and watch the infamous Nayirah testimony yourself. The fake witness set up by U.S. intelligence alleged before Congress that Iraqi soldiers took babies out of incubators and threw them onto the ground. Highly emotional and effective, but still all fraud and lies..

Babies in incubators? !

Well I don't know about that, but your boy Saddam invaded a neighboring soveriegn state called Kuwait and his 17-25 yo horny monsters went in and raped and pillaged Kuwait City, one of the most beautiful cities in the Gulf region at the time... and left nothing fucking standing before we ever put troops on the ground. ( I say that tongue in cheek... because we didn't need them on the ground... our boys neutralized the nasty fucks from air-conditioned cockpits at 2000 feet to 25,000 feet agl.)
Uncivilized barbarian pieces of shit.

And Bush Sr... had class... he liberated Kuwait and didn't press on into Baghdad. So stfu already with the incubater bs....

Oh yeah and lets not forget how the pos ordered his troops before they ran in defeat... to set fire to all those oil wells, the environmental damage from which to this day, is still being debated.

"Babies in incubators".... pffff.... those fucking beasts raped and killed 12yo girls all over Kuwait City you fucking stupid moron. You're fucking clueless. Take your liberal Euro-trash anti-American brainwashing elsewhere bud.

On ignore bitch... and you don't even get a warning.