Problem is with most of these Chicago prop groups, they give you very little to no room. They say "here..trade 5 lots of e minis with 500 dollar downside" Thats great. Then when its time to move up in size they say"ok..trade 50 lots with 1000 dollar downside". Do the math....doesnt work. And most of em want you to trade giving no breathing room to your trades. Trading the e minis giving them 1-2 ticks is a tough tough game. You have 5-8 good trades wiped out by one. I actually traded at a firm that had guys trading the euro giving it 1-3 ticks.......IMPOSSIBLE. I feel bad for any new guys coming into trading out there....you are basically taught the exact opposite of what it takes to be successful. Do 500 trades a day...give the positions no room...get clobbered with commissions. Then at the end of the month have some failed trader who is now a manager tell you you arent doing it right. Too funny. Anyways...just registered on here....figured I would throw my 2 cents in. I traded prop in chicago for 10 years. Trade for a hedge fund now....much different.
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Chicago Prop firms
- Thread starter jswieton
- Start date
Quote from EPrado:
Problem is with most of these Chicago prop groups, they give you very little to no room. They say "here..trade 5 lots of e minis with 500 dollar downside" Thats great. Then when its time to move up in size they say"ok..trade 50 lots with 1000 dollar downside". Do the math....doesnt work. And most of em want you to trade giving no breathing room to your trades. Trading the e minis giving them 1-2 ticks is a tough tough game. You have 5-8 good trades wiped out by one. I actually traded at a firm that had guys trading the euro giving it 1-3 ticks.......IMPOSSIBLE. I feel bad for any new guys coming into trading out there....you are basically taught the exact opposite of what it takes to be successful. Do 500 trades a day...give the positions no room...get clobbered with commissions. Then at the end of the month have some failed trader who is now a manager tell you you arent doing it right. Too funny. Anyways...just registered on here....figured I would throw my 2 cents in. I traded prop in chicago for 10 years. Trade for a hedge fund now....much different.
Make you about right...its all about the comms with most prop shops, if you manage to turn a profit as well then you are a real hero!!
Not really the best way into trading, but a way in none the less!
Peace & Profit
Quote from EPrado:
Problem is with most of these Chicago prop groups, they give you very little to no room. They say "here..trade 5 lots of e minis with 500 dollar downside" Thats great. Then when its time to move up in size they say"ok..trade 50 lots with 1000 dollar downside". Do the math....doesnt work. And most of em want you to trade giving no breathing room to your trades. Trading the e minis giving them 1-2 ticks is a tough tough game. You have 5-8 good trades wiped out by one. I actually traded at a firm that had guys trading the euro giving it 1-3 ticks.......IMPOSSIBLE. I feel bad for any new guys coming into trading out there....you are basically taught the exact opposite of what it takes to be successful. Do 500 trades a day...give the positions no room...get clobbered with commissions. Then at the end of the month have some failed trader who is now a manager tell you you arent doing it right. Too funny. Anyways...just registered on here....figured I would throw my 2 cents in. I traded prop in chicago for 10 years. Trade for a hedge fund now....much different.
BINGO!! Wonder why a lot of the firms are not doing that great right now because they are all based on the same trading model and most won't change. It works for some people but hard to have a floor of 80 traders and force then all to do the same thing. It worked when it was still inefficient like when a market was transitioning from a floor model to an electronic model. My favorite part is the failed trader now a manager telling you what you are doing wrong.
Quote from EPrado:
Problem is with most of these Chicago prop groups, they give you very little to no room. They say "here..trade 5 lots of e minis with 500 dollar downside" Thats great. Then when its time to move up in size they say"ok..trade 50 lots with 1000 dollar downside". Do the math....doesnt work. And most of em want you to trade giving no breathing room to your trades. Trading the e minis giving them 1-2 ticks is a tough tough game. You have 5-8 good trades wiped out by one. I actually traded at a firm that had guys trading the euro giving it 1-3 ticks.......IMPOSSIBLE. I feel bad for any new guys coming into trading out there....you are basically taught the exact opposite of what it takes to be successful. Do 500 trades a day...give the positions no room...get clobbered with commissions. Then at the end of the month have some failed trader who is now a manager tell you you arent doing it right. Too funny. Anyways...just registered on here....figured I would throw my 2 cents in. I traded prop in chicago for 10 years. Trade for a hedge fund now....much different.
Eprado,
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but this is the correct way to learn how to trade.
Make you about right...its all about the comms with most prop shops, if you manage to turn a profit as well then you are a real hero!!
Not really the best way into trading, but a way in none the less!
Peace & Profit
Definetly a way in.....and I guess for someone starting out is the only way in...but man...is such a bad way to trade ....I once got reprimanded at a firm out there for taking 5 points on an EP trade....was told my holding time (1 hour) was too much...was told better off going in and out for .50 points at a time...that about said it all for me...left a few weeks later....
and yes..the guys who end up covering their costs and actually producing a net profit are heroes....but jsut think how much more money they could make trading differently ..or IMHO...the right way...
Not really the best way into trading, but a way in none the less!
Peace & Profit
Definetly a way in.....and I guess for someone starting out is the only way in...but man...is such a bad way to trade ....I once got reprimanded at a firm out there for taking 5 points on an EP trade....was told my holding time (1 hour) was too much...was told better off going in and out for .50 points at a time...that about said it all for me...left a few weeks later....
and yes..the guys who end up covering their costs and actually producing a net profit are heroes....but jsut think how much more money they could make trading differently ..or IMHO...the right way...
BINGO!! Wonder why a lot of the firms are not doing that great right now because they are all based on the same trading model and most won't change. It works for some people but hard to have a floor of 80 traders and force then all to do the same thing. It worked when it was still inefficient like when a market was transitioning from a floor model to an electronic model. My favorite part is the failed trader now a manager telling you what you are doing wrong.
Yep....dont wanna name names....but you hit the nail on the head amigo...the firm I worked on basically ahd 80 dudes all doing the same thing.....and their model ...lol...was waiting for an economic number to come out....and they prayed it was way out of line so they could hopefully catch the move...it worked..for a few mos...but now it doesnt...the days of the 4 point bond future move are gone..and now they are screwed...
I have a few friends out there in Chicago who got into smaller prop firms and are doing well....the key...the firm doesnt keep a tight hold on them(but if they start to implode and dont cut back at some point are quickly shown the door)...lets them trade any style they want (as long as they are profitable)....and most importantly..lets them trade more than one damn contract...this stuff about mastering one contract is kinda dangerous...what happens if you trade 10 yrs and they dry up...you are SOL...need a few options...
Not to change the subject...I just started posting here...saw some clown on another thread blabbing about how he was the king of EP trading......he finally posted a trade before the fact...Long Ep at 1234.00.....now trading 1230.50.. nice call by the jackazz......
Yep....dont wanna name names....but you hit the nail on the head amigo...the firm I worked on basically ahd 80 dudes all doing the same thing.....and their model ...lol...was waiting for an economic number to come out....and they prayed it was way out of line so they could hopefully catch the move...it worked..for a few mos...but now it doesnt...the days of the 4 point bond future move are gone..and now they are screwed...
I have a few friends out there in Chicago who got into smaller prop firms and are doing well....the key...the firm doesnt keep a tight hold on them(but if they start to implode and dont cut back at some point are quickly shown the door)...lets them trade any style they want (as long as they are profitable)....and most importantly..lets them trade more than one damn contract...this stuff about mastering one contract is kinda dangerous...what happens if you trade 10 yrs and they dry up...you are SOL...need a few options...
Not to change the subject...I just started posting here...saw some clown on another thread blabbing about how he was the king of EP trading......he finally posted a trade before the fact...Long Ep at 1234.00.....now trading 1230.50.. nice call by the jackazz......
Eprado,
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but this is the correct way to learn how to trade.
Not bursting my bubble at all.....but buying and selling Ep all day long for 2 tick winners and losers will get you nowhere(dont even attempt to say that trading the euro for 1-3 tick profits is a good idea)...yes it will get you acclimated with the market...but why teach a new guy things that absolutely will not work in the long run...so he can develop bad habits and ideas that will not make him a successful trader? Why not tach him the right way from the getgo. Take a look at the firms out there that live and die by these methods...their turnover rate is huge. Success rate is tiny. Meanwhile they rake in all the commissions. Is a great business model for them.....a horrible one for the trader.
Just trying to help others avoid the bs I went through when I started....
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but this is the correct way to learn how to trade.
Not bursting my bubble at all.....but buying and selling Ep all day long for 2 tick winners and losers will get you nowhere(dont even attempt to say that trading the euro for 1-3 tick profits is a good idea)...yes it will get you acclimated with the market...but why teach a new guy things that absolutely will not work in the long run...so he can develop bad habits and ideas that will not make him a successful trader? Why not tach him the right way from the getgo. Take a look at the firms out there that live and die by these methods...their turnover rate is huge. Success rate is tiny. Meanwhile they rake in all the commissions. Is a great business model for them.....a horrible one for the trader.
Just trying to help others avoid the bs I went through when I started....
Quote from EPrado:
Yep....dont wanna name names....but you hit the nail on the head amigo...the firm I worked on basically ahd 80 dudes all doing the same thing.....and their model ...lol...was waiting for an economic number to come out....and they prayed it was way out of line so they could hopefully catch the move...it worked..for a few mos...but now it doesnt...the days of the 4 point bond future move are gone..and now they are screwed...
I have a few friends out there in Chicago who got into smaller prop firms and are doing well....the key...the firm doesnt keep a tight hold on them(but if they start to implode and dont cut back at some point are quickly shown the door)...lets them trade any style they want (as long as they are profitable)....and most importantly..lets them trade more than one damn contract...this stuff about mastering one contract is kinda dangerous...what happens if you trade 10 yrs and they dry up...you are SOL...need a few options...
Wonder if we were ever at the same place, but then again a lot of the firms were based on the exact same model including the econ number thing. Yea the master one contract thing is also a joke. What about master a trading style that you can apply to any market and then just change markets to ones that are moving instead of "waiting for your market to get good again". It seems to be the first style to be effected and effected the most when the market changes is the execution dependent based trading styles.
Quote from cornholetrading:
Wonder if we were ever at the same place, but then again a lot of the firms were based on the exact same model including the econ number thing. Yea the master one contract thing is also a joke. What about master a trading style that you can apply to any market and then just change markets to ones that are moving instead of "waiting for your market to get good again". It seems to be the first style to be effected and effected the most when the market changes is the execution dependent based trading styles.
Maybe.....the place I was at hired a slew of guys...kinda like throwing sh#t at the wall and seeing what stuck....problem is...nothing is sticking..lol........
I tried trading that "master one contract "thing....is fine when your market is moving...but you are a dead man when volatility dries up... I did though learn exactly what NOT to do by working there...Like you said, master a trading technique that can be carried into any market. That way you have a ton of flexibility and are not a one trick pony . I basically now keep an eye on 20 or so markets and go where the action is. My performance has skyrocketed. Would never go back to just trading one market. As far as the execution dependent styles? Very very tough. I used to watch guys who would line up the book......have a few tiny winners...then some news would come out and the book would get swept, and so would their whole months.
Quote from EPrado:
....but buying and selling Ep all day long for 2 tick winners and losers will get you nowhere(dont even attempt to say that trading the euro for 1-3 tick profits is a good idea)...yes it will get you acclimated with the market...but why teach a new guy things that absolutely will not work in the long run...so he can develop bad habits and ideas that will not make him a successful trader? Why not tach him the right way from the getgo. Take a look at the firms out there that live and die by these methods...their turnover rate is huge. Success rate is tiny. Meanwhile they rake in all the commissions. Is a great business model for them.....a horrible one for the trader.
Just trying to help others avoid the bs I went through when I started....
Absolutely agree. I think when starting a new business venture or career the first questions that you need to ask are : How do I get paid ? and (if employed or partnered) How does my employer/partner get paid and what is their business model ?
So its easy: before you get involved with a small operation or a very large operation it is extremely fair to ask "I've researched your company but I would like you to tell me a few details about your business model: for example, what is you primary revenue stream and what are your plans for growing the business over the next 5 years ?"
You would be amazed at how many organizations/people will NOT answer this simple question ....at that point a smart person will "run away"