Chevy volt production is stopped.

Quote from Sandybestdog:

Wow! I can just feel the hate. Fox News really got you worked up.
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those phoney pretend conservatives over at Fox don't even comprehend our hatred of the way the government works now.

In their small minds they think the most important problem facing America today is Michelle Obama doesn't like it when children eat cheeseburgers.

How do you think the salesman over at Ford felt each week when he looked at his check and saw that part of the money gone went to support his competitor?

I don't buy this notion that if GM went under it would take down Ford. If that is so, why don't they just merge? Because apparently they can't live without each other.
 
Quote from Sandybestdog:

I'm still waiting for you to point out what you would actually like the vehicle to do. It has met my needs just fine. I'm at 203 lifetime MPG right now.

On the volt stats website, for February, the % of EV use was 74%. So obviously it's meeting the needs of a lot of other people as well.

Here are my stats.
http://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/580
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I know you're getting annoyed and I'm doing my best to stay impersonal but not doing a great job of it. I read and respect your posts on a great many other subjects so I should try to be nicer here.

You said yourself that you have a rather short commute and you also have the opportunity to charge the vehicle at your job site. That is great and allows you to use the car as a plug-in electric with the gasoline engine rarely activating. Most people must drive farther to work and most can't recharge via plug-in at work.

What I wanted (and what GM claimed would be built) was an electric vehicle with plug-in charging and also an onboard electric generator that could supply enough electric energy so that the car could be driven and the batteries recharged somewhat while being driven. No mechanical connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels.

What I mean to say is that if I was driving this vehicle to work (28 miles one way, 56 miles round trip) I had hoped to be able to use it like you do except just plug-in charge overnight. I wanted to be able to drive to work on battery power and park and then drive home in the evening on battery power and plug the vehicle in overnight. That would completely eliminate my use of gasoline for commuting.

For longer trips I wanted to drive on battery power until the onboard generator activated autonomously and continue with the generator supplying electric energy to the electric motor while moderately recharging the batteries. This is what the GM concept would do and what the original vehicle design was capable of. They would have sold and sold and GM would likely have had problem keeping up with demand for such a car. The onboard generator that was designed for the car was incredibly efficient so that even when it had to run on the generator the mileage would have been impressive.

GM balked at this design and made a whole bunch of bad choices and then weren't up-front about the capabilities of the vehicle that ended up on the showroom floor. I think the margin of profit just wasn't what they wanted but I don't know that for fact.
 
"According to Consumer Reports in December 2011, the Chevrolet Volt fuel cost in electric mode was 3.8¢/mile, while the Nissan Leaf had a cost of 3.5¢/mi. The Volt's higher cost per mile was attributed to its heavier weight. Their estimates used the U.S. national average electricity rate of 11¢/kWh and energy consumption rates as measured on their own, unofficial tests. When comparing the Volt in range-extended mode with the four most fuel efficient gasoline-powered cars as tested by the magazine, the plug-in hybrid had a cost of 12.5¢/mi (using premium gasoline) while the Toyota Prius had a cost of 8.6¢/mi., the Honda Civic Hybrid 9.5¢/mi., the Toyota Corolla 11.9¢/mi., and the Hyundai Elantra 13.1¢/mi. The analysis also found that, on trips up to 100 mi (160 km), the Volt was cheaper to drive than the other four cars because the Volt was able to drive 35 mi (56 km) using less expensive electric power. Consumer Reports found that, using their proprietary testing, the Volt overall fuel efficiency was 99 mpg-US (2.4 L/100 km; 119 mpg-imp) equivalent (MPG-e), and using only range-extended mode the overall fuel economy was 32 mpg-US (7.4 L/100 km; 38 mpg-imp) and equivalent to the Toyota Corolla. The report noted that, as of 2011, plug-in electric cars are more expensive to buy, and the previous operating costs do not include maintenance, depreciation or other costs.[76]"

"According to Edmunds.com, the price premium paid for the Volt, after discounting the US$7,500 federal tax credit, takes a long time for consumers to recover in fuel savings, often longer than the normal ownership time period. Edmunds compared the Volt (priced at US$31,712) with the same-size gasoline-powered Chevrolet Cruze (priced at US$19,656) and found that the payback period for the plug-in hybrid is 15 years for gasoline prices at US$3 per gallon, 12 years at US$4 per gallon, and drops to 9 years with gasoline prices at US$5 per gallon. At early 2012 prices, the break even period is 14 years. These estimates assume an average of 15,000 mi (24,000 km) annual driving and vehicle prices correspond to Edmunds.com's true market value estimates.[77]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_volt#Terminology

GL volt buyers.
 
Quote from Sandybestdog:

Wow! I can just feel the hate. Fox News really got you worked up.
More...

Lol, I am fairly sure I have not watched Fox News for maybe more than a total of 1 hour. No, sorry I look at facts. You plug in the car! It sucks off the grid! The grid does not run on wind, or solar of whatever other fantasy fuel you want to believe. As far as I have read the cost for the plug ins does not add up in the long for pretty much anyone. My wife drives 22 miles one way and has to commute between sites all day. Can't see a battery car being a great choice. I only put 10, 000 to 12000 a year on my vehicle, but I am the soccer mom of the family since I trade I am home to run the kids to football, soccer, swimming, track and baseball. Not mention the other crap they are in, and my trips would kill the battery real quick without the chance to plug in.
What you going to do with those batteries when they die, oh let me guess they won't end up in a landfill. They will certainly all be recycled. Too funny, but not.
 
Quote from r-in:

Lol, I am fairly sure I have not watched Fox News for maybe more than a total of 1 hour. No, sorry I look at facts. You plug in the car! It sucks off the grid! The grid does not run on wind, or solar of whatever other fantasy fuel you want to believe. As far as I have read the cost for the plug ins does not add up in the long for pretty much anyone. My wife drives 22 miles one way and has to commute between sites all day. Can't see a battery car being a great choice. I only put 10, 000 to 12000 a year on my vehicle, but I am the soccer mom of the family since I trade I am home to run the kids to football, soccer, swimming, track and baseball. Not mention the other crap they are in, and my trips would kill the battery real quick without the chance to plug in.
What you going to do with those batteries when they die, oh let me guess they won't end up in a landfill. They will certainly all be recycled. Too funny, but not.
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lol.

In a sense the Volt is a coal powered car. :)
 
Quote from 377OHMS:

My recollection is that the original battery design was going to cost GM about $18k per vehicle not including development costs and factoring in large scale manufacturing efficiencies.

That was going to eat into GM's profit margin per vehicle so they opted for lashing together many smaller commercially available batteries. But the lashups have too much volume overhead due to the need for contacts between every cell and the so the overall battery capacity was diminished unacceptably but GM decided to press on with production due likely to pressure from the Obama administration.

It really was the single most destructive decision made about Volt production as it cut the electric range drastically. I don't know if the original battery really had gave the car a 200 mile range. That number was what they were saying at the Los Angeles car show about a year before the car went into production.

The decision to use an off-the-shelf gasoline engine was the next terrible decision. Dropping the stylish coachwork and stretched out chassis design was another very bad decision. Marketing the vehicle dishonestly was the final and most harmful decision so far as public perception.

As I've said, I was going to buy one but what came out of the factory did not even remotely resemble the cars shown across the country at car shows in technology or style.
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"Profit margin per vehicle"? They are losing money on the Volt right now. What you're essentially saying is that they should have gone with a higher production cost vehicle so that they can in turn have a higher costing vehicle. Just imagine if the Volt cost $50k+. Then you people would really be bashing it.

I read the concept part of the wikipedia article and no where does it state anything about a 200 mile electric range. As a full electric vehicle, the Leaf doesn't even get half of that. Surely they knew during the production stage that that technology was not even close to being in existence.

The Volt was in full scale developement long before Obama was in office. Please don't use that argument. Look at the things Bush did and look at the things Obama did. They are just about the same. Not much difference between the two but yet all you people love the one and hate the other.
 
Quote from oldtime:
those phoney pretend conservatives over at Fox don't even comprehend our hatred of the way the government works now.

In their small minds they think the most important problem facing America today is Michelle Obama doesn't like it when children eat cheeseburgers.

How do you think the salesman over at Ford felt each week when he looked at his check and saw that part of the money gone went to support his competitor?

I don't buy this notion that if GM went under it would take down Ford. If that is so, why don't they just merge? Because apparently they can't live without each other.
More...
I imagine the Ford salesman would probably be mad. Although didn't Ford take federal loans as well? I'm honestly not sure, so correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not here to defend GM. You can certainly argue that they should not have been bailed out. But all of the political and corporate talk has nothing to do with whether the Volt is a good or bad car.
 
Quote from 377OHMS:
I know you're getting annoyed and I'm doing my best to stay impersonal but not doing a great job of it. I read and respect your posts on a great many other subjects so I should try to be nicer here.

You said yourself that you have a rather short commute and you also have the opportunity to charge the vehicle at your job site. That is great and allows you to use the car as a plug-in electric with the gasoline engine rarely activating. Most people must drive farther to work and most can't recharge via plug-in at work.

What I wanted (and what GM claimed would be built) was an electric vehicle with plug-in charging and also an onboard electric generator that could supply enough electric energy so that the car could be driven and the batteries recharged somewhat while being driven. No mechanical connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels.

What I mean to say is that if I was driving this vehicle to work (28 miles one way, 56 miles round trip) I had hoped to be able to use it like you do except just plug-in charge overnight. I wanted to be able to drive to work on battery power and park and then drive home in the evening on battery power and plug the vehicle in overnight. That would completely eliminate my use of gasoline for commuting.

For longer trips I wanted to drive on battery power until the onboard generator activated autonomously and continue with the generator supplying electric energy to the electric motor while moderately recharging the batteries. This is what the GM concept would do and what the original vehicle design was capable of. They would have sold and sold and GM would likely have had problem keeping up with demand for such a car. The onboard generator that was designed for the car was incredibly efficient so that even when it had to run on the generator the mileage would have been impressive.

GM balked at this design and made a whole bunch of bad choices and then weren't up-front about the capabilities of the vehicle that ended up on the showroom floor. I think the margin of profit just wasn't what they wanted but I don't know that for fact.
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Ah ha! The truth comes out. Your commute is 16 miles longer than the Volt's electric range and thus doesn't fulfill your needs, therefore it's a bad car.

After reading the concept part of the wikipedia article, it seems the goal was to make a vehicle that could be plugged in and go about 40 miles on battery and after that have a generator (gas, diesel, or E85 powered) recharge the battery while driving. What we ended up with is a vehicle that goes about a 40 miles on a charge and then is recharged by a gas generator that at times would also need to send a small amount of power directly to the drivetrain while at speeds of 70+. What's the problem? Yea they changed the chassis and the gas generator, and the gas powered MPG isn't as much as they would have liked but seems to me that they pretty much accomplished their goal. It's a concept car. Concepts sometimes need to be altered to make it a practical production model at the best cost. While in extended range mode, it is rated at 37 MPG. That seems pretty much inline with hybrid vehicles, maybe a little low. I'm not sure what your definition of efficient is. What were you expecting? 100 MPG?

While it's true that I am able to charge at work, that really doesn't make a difference to me. I can charge using an extention cord plugged into my front yard just fine. In fact it was plugged in there for about 3 hours today because I was off today and was running around town and won't have enough charge to get to work tomorrow.
 
Quote from r-in:
Lol, I am fairly sure I have not watched Fox News for maybe more than a total of 1 hour. No, sorry I look at facts. You plug in the car! It sucks off the grid! The grid does not run on wind, or solar of whatever other fantasy fuel you want to believe. As far as I have read the cost for the plug ins does not add up in the long for pretty much anyone. My wife drives 22 miles one way and has to commute between sites all day. Can't see a battery car being a great choice. I only put 10, 000 to 12000 a year on my vehicle, but I am the soccer mom of the family since I trade I am home to run the kids to football, soccer, swimming, track and baseball. Not mention the other crap they are in, and my trips would kill the battery real quick without the chance to plug in.
What you going to do with those batteries when they die, oh let me guess they won't end up in a landfill. They will certainly all be recycled. Too funny, but not.
More...
OK, so the Volt doesn't fit your needs. Then don't buy one. Get a Cruze or a Sonata hybrid or something else. Just because it doesn't fit your needs doesn't make it a bad car.

I never said the cost adds up in the end. It probably doesn't. Remember when an iPhone cost $599? Now look at them. Better phones at half the price. New technology is often not cost efficient but it needs to be made so that it can then be improved and the costs brought down. If that doesn't happen, it fades away because it's impractical, which is what should happen to the Volt if they are not in the long run able to improve on its design while bringing costs down.
 
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