Chevy Volt a lemon for GM. Current administration makes sour lemonade.

Quote from bone:
From my viewpoint, Americans want to see GM succeed. It's the idea of the government choosing and financing winners and losers in the free enterprise system either through direct bail-outs or tax breaks that galls many of us and indeed provides the friction point that you observe, Sandy. Personally, I wish you the very best.
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Thanks for the kind words. I understand the frustration people would have towards GM but I don't understand all this bailout talk and such. They got a loan from the government while going through bankruptcy. So did other company's. Why is everybody still calling them "Government Motors". The government is not running them. What other involvement does the government have in them that they don't have in Toyota or Ford? What other bailout's are they continually getting that is keeping them afloat? The $7500 tax credit is just as available to Leaf's as it is to Volt's.

By the way, I don't work for GM. I work for my dealer. Like I said, I have plenty issues with them related to how what they do affects me working for a dealer selling their products.
 
Quote from Sandybestdog:

Why is everybody still calling them "Government Motors". The government is not running them. What other involvement does the government have in them that they don't have in Toyota or Ford? What other bailout's are they continually getting that is keeping them afloat?
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GM would not exist today in anything like its current form if it were not for the gov't. It owes its existence to the gov't.

What percentage of Toyota or Ford does the US Treasury own?
 
Quote from GTS:

GM would not exist today in anything like its current form if it were not for the gov't. It owes its existence to the gov't.
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And so do the banks! Do we call them Government "Sachs, Goverment" Stanley", Government "Morgan"? And so on.

From 2008:
Goldman Sachs, which accepted $10 billion in government money, and lost $2.1 billion last quarter, announced Tuesday that it handed out $10.93 billion in benefits, bonuses, and compensation for the year.

Plenty more examples if they need to be posted.
 
Quote from DHOHHI:

And so do the banks! Do we call them Government "Sachs, Goverment" Stanley", Government "Morgan"? And so on.

From 2008:
Goldman Sachs, which accepted $10 billion in government money, and lost $2.1 billion last quarter, announced Tuesday that it handed out $10.93 billion in benefits, bonuses, and compensation for the year.

Plenty more examples if they need to be posted.
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Yes, many people do understand that the largest banks are still in business thanks to government largesse. The acronym TBTF has been widely used over the past several years ("Too Big To Fail")
 
Quote from DHOHHI:

And so do the banks! Do we call them Government "Sachs, Goverment" Stanley", Government "Morgan"? And so on.
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First, I really don't care if you start calling them Govt Sachs - doesn't quite have the ring that Gov't Motors has but whatever floats your boat.

Second, to suggest that what happened with GS was anywhere near the same as what happened with GM is foolish. They aren't even in the same league.
 
Sandybestdog, I wish you the best during this depression. (Oh yes, this is a true depression. It's not like the Great Depression as the countless govt. programs out there being used today are "masking" the reality, thus no bread and soup lines. Today, people who qualify can get an atm card to go get cash with, not to mention food programs, morgtage relief, and so on...)

I once sold cars many, many moons ago. I did new and used, and the used cars were how I survived. More gross in them, vs. the all too common mini-deal on a new piece.

I've got a very good Friend who still sells cars, and he told me recently that he's going to go to work for a company that does these traveling "tent sales"/on-site sales selling used cars. He's working for a large GM/Cadillac dealership, and says the money just isn't there anymore outside of used pieces. Hopefully you're in a better area.
 
Quote from LEAPup:

Sandybestdog, I wish you the best during this depression. (Oh yes, this is a true depression. It's not like the Great Depression as the countless govt. programs out there being used today are "masking" the reality, thus no bread and soup lines. Today, people who qualify can get an atm card to go get cash with, not to mention food programs, morgtage relief, and so on...)

I once sold cars many, many moons ago. I did new and used, and the used cars were how I survived. More gross in them, vs. the all too common mini-deal on a new piece.

I've got a very good Friend who still sells cars, and he told me recently that he's going to go to work for a company that does these traveling "tent sales"/on-site sales selling used cars. He's working for a large GM/Cadillac dealership, and says the money just isn't there anymore outside of used pieces. Hopefully you're in a better area.
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I've come to the conclusion that the real money is in "fixing" all these cars, namely repair shops. Of course, the auto dealers literally make a mint off of their service operations, but even the smaller operators make a pretty good buck doing some of the routine service or, God forbid, an out of warranty major repair.

The bigger difference is most people don't have a "blue book" or "NADA price guide" handy when they go to the repair shop. There is very little in the way of uniform pricing and those are the businesses that can literally make a mint.

On your other point, you echo my sentiments exactly about this depression. Or as somebody coined it the "silent depression" as there can be no outward signs of the guy down the street who strat. defaulted on his mortgage, collects those unemployment checks and quietly lives off of food stamps. Maybe, the only indication is that SUV sits in the driveway during normal business hours. (Of course, so many at home type jobs, that even that might not say much).
 
Quote from Sandybestdog:

Thanks for the kind words. I understand the frustration people would have towards GM but I don't understand all this bailout talk and such. They got a loan from the government while going through bankruptcy. So did other company's. Why is everybody still calling them "Government Motors". The government is not running them. What other involvement does the government have in them that they don't have in Toyota or Ford? What other bailout's are they continually getting that is keeping them afloat? The $7500 tax credit is just as available to Leaf's as it is to Volt's.

By the way, I don't work for GM. I work for my dealer. Like I said, I have plenty issues with them related to how what they do affects me working for a dealer selling their products.
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I'm afraid this post cast a lot of doubt on the credibility of your other posts about Volts. What ticked people off is that the Obama administration ran roughshod over bondholders, other creditors and BTW a lot of dealerships so that they could hand a giant taxpayer-financed subsidy to the UAW, a big obama and democrat party contributor. They called it "saving jobs", but to many, it looked like a rip-off and payoff. Ironically, it went to the very people whose lavish benefits, etc made GM uncompetitive in the first place.

There is no reason GM and Chrysler could not have been reorganized in a traditional bankruptcy. The viable components would have been preserved, but under a cost structure that made some sense. All Obama ende up doing was kicking this particular can down the road by a few years, which seems to be his policy on quite a lot of issues. Does anyone doubt that GM, under its current cost structure, will require another bailout in the near future?

Turning to the Volt issue, you say they are on allocation, but the article I posted said only a very small percentage of those that have been made have been sold. Now either you or the author are wrong or GM is for some reason holding Volts off the market. Which is it?
 
Quote from LEAPup:
Sandybestdog, I wish you the best during this depression. (Oh yes, this is a true depression. It's not like the Great Depression as the countless govt. programs out there being used today are "masking" the reality, thus no bread and soup lines. Today, people who qualify can get an atm card to go get cash with, not to mention food programs, morgtage relief, and so on...)

I once sold cars many, many moons ago. I did new and used, and the used cars were how I survived. More gross in them, vs. the all too common mini-deal on a new piece.

I've got a very good Friend who still sells cars, and he told me recently that he's going to go to work for a company that does these traveling "tent sales"/on-site sales selling used cars. He's working for a large GM/Cadillac dealership, and says the money just isn't there anymore outside of used pieces. Hopefully you're in a better area.
More...
Ah yes! The all too common mini deal. Let me tell you how little there is in new cars. If I sold a Cruze at full sticker, it would still be a mini deal. In new cars, it's all about the volume, It's all about hitting all the different bonus levels etc. Unfortunately I don't get the opportunity to sell used too much.

Some of the old timer's might complain about it and talk about the good old days. I think the key is to adapt to changing conditions. I think that's the only way I have survived. I have picked up on areas that others weren't taking advantage of. For instance, the Volt. I have really tried to take advantage of it as I see that is where a large market exists that I understand. I work at a very old timer's dealership. They taught me everything they learned about the business, now I teach them things like "cut and paste" and pairing the bluetooth. I'm just happy to be making a living. It's such a relief. As long as things don't get worse, I'll be OK.
 
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