Cheney's KO of Obama

Sorry, WWII was a real war against real enemies. War on terror is a fake war against mythical organizations (al-quaeda)

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Good stuff, Pabst. Regarding WW II, there was a famous case of German saboteurs being put ashore by U-boats. They were quickly captured and executed after trial by a hastily convened Military Commission. The Supreme Court approved the process. see http://www.bsos.umd.edu/gvpt/lpbr/subpages/reviews/fisher-louis2.htm

Vol. 13 No. 7 (July 2003)


NAZI SABOTEURS ON TRIAL: A MILITARY TRIBUNAL AND AMERICAN LAW by Louis Fisher. Lawrence: University Press of Kansas, 2003. 200pp. Cloth $29.95. ISBN: 0‑7006‑1238‑6.



Reviewed by Samuel B. Hoff, Department of History, Political Science, and Philosophy, Delaware State University. Email: shoff@desu.edu .



In his latest book, Congressional Research Service Senior Specialist Louis Fisher describes the quick‑moving events surrounding the capture, trial and punishment of eight Germans who came to America during World War II to commit acts of sabotage. Tapping a wealth of archival documents, including the massive tribunal transcript, Fisher evaluates the procedural and constitutional issues involved. He insists that the latter episode must be contemplated in light of contemporary actions—including the post‑September 11, 2001 directive by President George W. Bush to authorize the creation of military tribunals to try non‑U.S. citizens who may have assisted al Qaeda terrorists—so as not to repeat a rush to judgment.



Chapter 1 of the book details the background of the sabotage plan, referred to as "Operation Pastorius." The eight men selected for the mission were thoroughly familiar with America, as all had lived in the U.S. for several years before returning to Germany. The targets included aluminum plants in Tennessee, New York, Missouri, and Pennsylvania; the locks of the Ohio River between Pittsburgh and Louisville; and railroad connections in New Jersey and New York.



Chapter 2 depicts the landing of the Germans in the United States. One group of four came ashore at Amagansett, Long Island on June 13, 1942. This group was quickly met by a Coast Guardsman. Claiming to be fishermen, the Germans were eventually allowed to continue to New York City. However, the combination of the official's suspicion, the discovery of boxes of explosives and other items left on the beach, and the confession of one of the saboteurs to the FBI doomed the group's mission. The second group of four men landed at a Jacksonville, Florida beach on June 17. After rendezvousing in Cincinnati, they split up, traveling to New York and Chicago. This group was captured after two of the saboteurs visited members of their family in America, against the orders of the Nazi command. Despite assistance by the Coast Guard and the saboteur who turned in his fellow conspirators, the FBI took sole credit for rounding up the Germans, all of whom were in custody by June 27, 1942.



Chapter 3 delineates the reasons why a military tribunal was established to try the Germans and how it would operate. Less than a week after the last of the saboteurs was arrested, President Franklin Roosevelt issued a proclamation creating a military tribunal to prosecute the Germans. Besides being Roosevelt's preference, the military court was seen as the best option, because it would prevent immediate notification to the public that German submarines had reached

American shores undetected and because it could recommend the death penalty for the perpetrators. The proclamation forbid the Germans access to civil courts, directed the Attorney General to handle the prosecution, and permitted a two‑thirds vote for conviction and sentencing, all of which were inconsistent with existing judicial procedure. Although defense lawyers petitioned for review of the constitutionality of President Roosevelt's proclamation, the request was rejected by a federal district court. After nineteen days of hearings and two days of deliberation, the tribunal recommended death for all eight Germans. Less than a week later, six of eight were electrocuted in Washington, DC.



In Chapter 4, Fisher reviews the manner by which the U.S. Supreme Court had become involved in the case of the German saboteurs. After the district court had rejected the request to review whether the military court was properly constituted, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments on July 29 and 30. The next day, July 31, 1942, the Court issued a short per curium opinion upholding the constitutionality of the proclamation. It took until October 29 for the Court to complete a full written opinion explaining their decision. Because the majority of the saboteurs were executed on August 8, Chief Justice Stone believed it was critical to have a unanimous opinion to justify the government's action. Although such support was eventually achieved, several justices expressed misgivings about the matter. The final holding in EX PARTE QUIRIN

(1942) upheld the chief executive's authority to create the military tribunal and distinguished the circumstances of the case from that of EX PARTE MILLIGAN (1866), where the Court determined that President Lincoln's use of a military tribunal to prosecute a U.S. citizen during the Civil War was unconstitutional.



Chapter 5 relays the immediate reaction to the EX PARTE QUIRIN decision and how it affected subsequent court rulings on the application of military tribunals. As opposed to the positive public response to the Supreme Court's decree, the academic and legal community opposed the holding. In later reflections on the case, Justice Felix Frankfurter stated that the "Quirin experience was not a happy precedent;" while Justice William Douglas found it "extremely undesirable to announce a decision on the merits without an opinion accompanying it." Fisher finds that throughout World War II, U.S. "federal courts largely deferred to executive and military authorities" (p.144) and that the "broad scope given to military trials did not begin to narrow until 1955" (p.156). After nearly fifty years, the specter of military tribunals "seemed quaint if not antiquated" (p.159). But the events of September 11, 2001 changed that, reviving the issue as it pertained to punishing those who provided assistance to the terrorist attacks against America. The authorization of military tribunals by the George W. Bush administration followed closely the precedent set by Franklin Roosevelt as far as the admission of evidence, vote required for conviction and sentencing, and the procedure for review. Congressional hearings and an American Bar Association Task Force questioned the expansiveness of President Bush's directive.



Fisher contends that the creation of the military tribunal by President Roosevelt in the German saboteurs incident was "deeply flawed" (p.172) and that the United States seems to be duplicating the mistakes that led to the expedient execution of most of the aforementioned participants. He clearly regards EX PARTE QUIRIN as a precedent not worth repeating, but one that must "be understood within the context of American constitutional law, the relations between Congress and the President, and the tradition of an independent judiciary" (p.175).



Other than Fisher's 2003 book examining military tribunals throughout American history, there are few other texts on the subject of the present text. Rochelle Saidel's 1984 book had some coverage of the same 1942 German saboteur case, but employed much less documentation than is present in Fisher's book. Barbara Olshansky's 2002 text looks at the history of military tribunals and offers a stringent critique of President George W. Bush's claims about the extent of the government's authority to prosecute suspected terrorists. In its view of the Bush action, Olshansky's work shares the position assumed by Fisher.



Though the concluding chapter is short and could have been integrated into the preceding one, there are few flaws with Fisher's study. His retelling of the 1942 incident involving the German saboteurs should renew interest in World War II and may result in a revision of thinking about how effective German intelligence and sabotage efforts were. The personalities of the men, short training time, and lack of confidence among the saboteurs toward each other and the Nazi officials who planned the operation seemed to portend the mission's utter failure.



Additionally, Fisher's book is a timely contribution to the debate over military tribunals. His study of the German saboteurs offers a stark reminder of how civil liberties may suffer during war time. He does not want the same thing to happen during the current “war” against terrorism, arguing against "any weakening of the constitutional rights of free speech and free press" (p.165). To date, the United States intends to use military courts to try three alleged terrorists found in the country, so the issue will continue to receive attention and—with the assistance of Fisher's book—scrutiny.
 
Quote from IShopAtPubic:

Sorry, WWII was a real war against real enemies. War on terror is a fake war against mythical organizations (al-quaeda)

This post says it all......In 2 sentences you have defined the left better than anyone.
 
Tomorrow we will be at the Marine Club in San Francisco Honoring fallen Marines in foreign wars. When I'm in Southern California we generally visit the Veterans Park Conservancy.

What is your Memorial Day tradition Kurt?
Have a nice Memorial Day weekend.


Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Over a post whose assertions were 99% erroneous bullshit? LMFAO.
 
Yea. Who could be more savage and uncivilized than Japan and Germany. A couple of really rogue nations, eh?

Did Germany ever attack the U.S. before we declared war on them?


Quote from IShopAtPublix:

Sorry, WWII was a real war against real enemies. War on terror is a fake war against mythical organizations (al-quaeda)
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Yea. Who could be more savage and uncivilized than Japan and Germany. A couple of really rogue nations, eh?

Did Germany ever attack the U.S. before we declared war on them?

Mr. Mensa epic fail. Germany declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor to show solidarity for their axis ally Japan. US declared war in response.
 
Pabst fail? LMAO.

"The Government of the United States having violated in the most flagrant manner and in ever-increasing measure all rules of neutrality in favor of the adversaries of Germany and having continually been guilty of the most severe provocations toward Germany ever since the outbreak of the European war, provoked by the British declaration of war against Germany on September 3, 1939, has finally resorted to open military acts of aggression.

On September 11, 1941, the President of the United States publicly declared that he had ordered the American Navy and Air Force to shoot on sight at any German war vessel. In his speech of October 27, 1941, he once more expressly affirmed that this order was in force. Acting under this order, vessels of the American Navy, since early September 1941, have systematically attacked German naval forces. Thus, American destroyers, as for instance the Greer, the Kearny and the Reuben James, have opened fire on German submarines according to plan. The Secretary of the American Navy, Mr. Knox, himself confirmed that American destroyers attacked German submarines.

Furthermore, the naval forces of the United States, under order of their Government and contrary to international law have treated and seized German merchant vessels on the high seas as enemy ships.

The German Government therefore establishes the following facts:

Although Germany on her part has strictly adhered to the rules of international law in her relations with the United States during every period of the present war, the Government of the United States from initial violations of neutrality has finally proceeded to open acts of war against Germany. The Government of the United States has thereby virtually created a state of war.

The German Government, consequently, discontinues diplomatic relations with the United States of America and declares that under these circumstances brought about by President Roosevelt, Germany too, as from today, considers herself as being in a state of war with the United States of America.

Accept, Mr. Chargé d'Affaires, the expression of my high consideration.

December 11, 1941


Quote from IShopAtPublix:

Mr. Mensa epic fail. Germany declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor to show solidarity for their axis ally Japan. US declared war in response.
 
Yes LMAO, it was never in doubt as to who US was helping and US was far from an innocent bystander, as to OFFICIAL DECLARATION of WAR, the events unfolded exactly as I said. Furthermore, look at the stamp December 11. According to that document US engaged in openly hostile behavior as far as September. What was Germany waiting for?


Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Pabst fail? LMAO.

"The Government of the United States having violated in the most flagrant manner and in ever-increasing measure all rules of neutrality in favor of the adversaries of Germany and having continually been guilty of the most severe provocations toward Germany ever since the outbreak of the European war, provoked by the British declaration of war against Germany on September 3, 1939, has finally resorted to open military acts of aggression.

On September 11, 1941, the President of the United States publicly declared that he had ordered the American Navy and Air Force to shoot on sight at any German war vessel. In his speech of October 27, 1941, he once more expressly affirmed that this order was in force. Acting under this order, vessels of the American Navy, since early September 1941, have systematically attacked German naval forces. Thus, American destroyers, as for instance the Greer, the Kearny and the Reuben James, have opened fire on German submarines according to plan. The Secretary of the American Navy, Mr. Knox, himself confirmed that American destroyers attacked German submarines.

Furthermore, the naval forces of the United States, under order of their Government and contrary to international law have treated and seized German merchant vessels on the high seas as enemy ships.

The German Government therefore establishes the following facts:

Although Germany on her part has strictly adhered to the rules of international law in her relations with the United States during every period of the present war, the Government of the United States from initial violations of neutrality has finally proceeded to open acts of war against Germany. The Government of the United States has thereby virtually created a state of war.

The German Government, consequently, discontinues diplomatic relations with the United States of America and declares that under these circumstances brought about by President Roosevelt, Germany too, as from today, considers herself as being in a state of war with the United States of America.

Accept, Mr. Chargé d'Affaires, the expression of my high consideration.

December 11, 1941
 
Italy and Germany were bound by treaty to war alongside Japan. Hitler regretted the Tripartite Pact for that very reason.

Many FDR skeptics believe he provoked Japan into attack not so much to fight the Nips as much as to lure in Germany. American voters were very against fighting Hitler. As such FDR made a big effort to run on a 1940 peace platform. He lied HIS ASS OFF.


Quote from IShopAtPublix:

Yes LMAO, it was never in doubt as to who US was helping and US was far from an innocent bystander, as to OFFICIAL DECLARATION of WAR, the events unfolded exactly as I said. Furthermore, look at the stamp December 11. According to that document US engaged in openly hostile behavior as far as September. What was Germany waiting for?
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Italy and Germany were bound by treaty to war alongside Japan. Hitler regretted the Tripartite Pact for that very reason.

Many FDR skeptics believe he provoked Japan into attack not so much to fight the Nips as much as to lure in Germany. American voters were very against fighting Hitler. As such FDR made a big effort to run on a 1940 peace platform. He lied HIS ASS OFF.

You are quite proficient at demagoguery. What does it have to do with the fact that Germany declared war on US first? Your statement was not about why US was hostile to Germany or why US was clearly committed to allied effort well before December 7th 1941. Your statement referenced US declaration of War towards germany very explicitly and in this regard you were wrong.

FDR wanted Japan to attack, he did everything in his power to provoke Japan into a war, no disagreement there.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090522/pl_afp/usjusticeattacksguantanamomilitary


Two Bush-era officials reject Cheney's security stance



WASHINGTON (AFP) – Two top Bush-era officials on Friday rejected ex-vice president Dick Cheney's scathing criticism of US President Barack Obama, saying the country's national security was not in jeopardy.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who served in the same post under former president George W. Bush, and Tom Ridge, the former head of homeland security, both voiced disagreement with Cheney a day after he attacked Obama's performance as the new commander-in-chief.

Gates said in an interview that opponents of Obama's decision to close the "war on terror" prison at Guantanamo were engaging in "fear-mongering," a reference to Cheney's stance on the issue.

Defending the president's decision to shut the detention center at the US naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Gates said the prison was damaging America's image and served as a propaganda tool for Al-Qaeda.

"The truth is, it's probably one of the finest prisons in the world today. But it has a taint," Gates told NBC television's "Today" program during a visit to New York.

"The name itself is a condemnation. What the president was saying is, this will be an advertisement for Al-Qaeda as long as it's open," he said.

In an interview with CNN's "State of the Union," Ridge said he could not support the former vice president's charge that Obama had undermined US national security.

Asked if he believed the country was now less safe as a result of Obama's policies, Ridge said: "I do not."
 
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